Mini-sliced Apertures In Fretboard

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 2 May 2003 2:21 am

Depending solely on reflective capabilities, the potential of the "MINI-SLICED FRETBOARD" would eliminate shaping and soldering of gadetery electronics. The "M.S.F."would spoof and bewilder exponents of a push-button society. By placing reflective material beneath the sliced apertures, the sliced fretting would appear to "jump" out, just as the tiniest crack, in woodwork, will transmit a glaring shaft of sunlight. I fully intend to combine two concepts which will negate visual problems of the "standardized" steel guitar fretboard. The front mounted "Angular Fretboard", and the "Sliced Aperture Fretboard", will be as one. I must reiterate the added pleasures that I've experienced since placing the "Frontally Mounted Fretboard" on my steel guitar.

Bill H.

William Peters · Post by **William Peters** » 2 May 2003 4:02 am

Bill

Wouldn't the slot in the fretboard necessitate perfect visual alignment in order to see the reflected fret marker through the aperture? I can't see how this would be a benefit.

Bill, the other Bill
Cougar SD-10, Peavey TNT-115, Gibson SG, Studio 100, misc other stuff

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 2 May 2003 4:33 am

Bill P.,

The natural movements acknowledged by recent studies on this forum, clearly indicate, that each steel guitarist adjusts his vision accordingly, to best suit his/her individual needs. One of the most recent considerations, was one, whereby, the musicians stance produced a visual predicabiity, of
his prowess. The visual scope, or perceptible differences, therefore would not be a problem due to the adjustability of aperture spacing.

I appreciate your input. It's a very interesting consideration.

Bill H.

[This message was edited by Bill Hankey on 02 May 2003 at 06:24 AM.]

Peter · Post by **Peter** » 2 May 2003 8:15 am

Bill, as you may know, light itself is invisible to the human eye until it hits something. Unless you look straight into the light emitter itself like a lightbulb filament, or the fosfor of a TV screen or a glowing LED on your fretboard.
For a reflective material to work, you need 2 things:
1-Light. No light, no reflection.
2-You need an object that catches the light AND that same object needs to be seen in the relective material.

If the reflective material is a flat mirror, you need to place the lit object in such a way, that you can see this object in the flat mirror. This might be the ceiling. (In a nightclub this ceiling might be black, so you see black (nothing) in the reflective material.)
The chances you see an actual lightbulb in the flat mirror are minimal because you need to be lined up in a certain way to see these lights.

A better option is that the reflective material is curved (like a chrome ball or cylinder). This will show up the light sources themselves in a better way because it works like a wide angle lens, showing more of the environment, including light sources, if they are ON.

Alternatively, you can use a reflective material that diffuses the reflections, like crumpled aluminum foil.

I used to have a fretboard with brass polished rods as frets. Those were fine to see, but if there is no light, there is no reflection. So a good option might be to use light emitting materials on the fretboard to improve visibility in the dark.

So even if you have materials with 100% perfect reflective capabilities, the potential of the "MINI-SLICED FRETBOARD" would not neccessarily eliminate shaping and soldering of gadgetery electronics.

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Peter den Hartogh-Fender Artist S10-Remington U12-Hilton Volume Pedal-Gibson BR4 lapsteel-Guya "Stringmaster" Copy-MusicMan112RP-Peavy Rage158- - My Animation College in South Africa

richard burton · Post by **richard burton** » 2 May 2003 10:52 am

With today's technology, surely frets are unnecessary? The bar could be positioned using satellite navigation (GPS). Simply by telling the satellite the position of the nut, and the scale length of the steel, the bar position could be monitored by satellite, and relayed to the player via goggles equipped with a cross-hair. The player doesn't even have to look at his bar.

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 2 May 2003 11:58 am

Yes, Richard, and you could run the visual input into one of those virtual helmets hooked up to a computer. You could watch your bar from any position in virtual reality, like from under your wrist. So you could see your bar from below the strings and always from directly behind the bar, to eliminate paralax. MSA and Harmos are probably working on this now.

Don't get offended, Bill. We're just jivin'.

But seriously, they say many important inventions came from toys. It seems we let our imagniations go more freely with toys, and are more afraid to experiment with serious work devices.

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 2 May 2003 1:17 pm

Peter,

Of the many mysteries which baffle our limited intellect, two head the list as the most problematic in definition. One is the speed of light, and its far-reaching transmissions. The other, and even more void of explanation is the passing of time. Not one single person in all creation, can utter when time began, or when it will end. The same applies to light. It serves a
special purpose that is not easily defined. Why would anyone want to approach a given problem associated with light transmission, with limited views, or suggesting it will do this or that thing, according to what we have experienced in trial observations. On a bright moonlit night, consider the reflected light of the sun from a dull surface, such as that of the moon. A tiny light at a still water's edge, will cast a beam over the surface for unbelievable distances. Therefore, light becomes more of a fascination, with the scope of usage possibilities, enlarging with each passing day.

The improved fretboard concept, is an interesting study, that is long overdue. The strongest argument is based on the fact that a musician is unable to view the fretting whenever the bar in hand obstructs the positioning.

Bill H. [This message was edited by Bill Hankey on 02 May 2003 at 02:25 PM.]

Terry Edwards · Post by **Terry Edwards** » 2 May 2003 2:02 pm

I think you have it all backwards...err..upside-down. The fretboard needs to be mounted over top the strings and made of a translucent material so you can see through it to your hand, bar, and strings below, being sure to leave enough room under the "see through fretboard" for your hands to move. The existing architecture of the ever ubiquitous steel guitar neck/fretboard/strings is so prominent that it impares our ability to form free thought! It is therefore incumbent on everyone of us to .....OK...I'm starting to see the light...Oh yea, LIGHT! That's what we were talking about!

Never mind. I think I will go self medicate.

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Terry Edwards
Fessy D-10; Nash 1000
Martin D-21; Flatiron F-5

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 2 May 2003 2:31 pm

Of the many mysteries which baffle our limited intellect, two head the list as the most problematic in definition.

Didn't I done told you about the "Accepted premise"?

One is the speed of light, and its far-reaching transmissions.

I think this is generally accepted to be 186,000miles per second. I believe it is one linear foot per nanosecond. The "Transmission" is only limited by interfering particles.

The other, and even more void of explanation is the passing of time. Not one single person in all creation, can utter when time began, or when it will end.

I'll take a stab at it. Time has been here since it began, and will be here yet a while.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>The same applies to light. It serves a
special purpose that is not easily defined.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Light is both Cause, and Effect. Gravity is similar. Possibly the only Duo that can make that claim. Energy is more complex in it's diferent forms: Potential, Kinetic, etc. and can be either. Mass simply Is.

Energy is roughly Mass, Multiplied by the Speed of Light Squared, the way I originally worked it out. I'd have to find my old notes from when I drank.

I can only add to this that if you indeed have a luminous. bright "uniformly lit" medium under such a proposed slotted fretboard,that the only way it would provide "beams of visible light" except from direct viewing is through reflection from the bottom of the strings, in which "our" hand and bar interference "problem" would again rear it's ugly head.

The only way you would see
beams" is if you introduced constant uniformparticular interference under the strings.

I suggest "smoke" as the most consistent and uniform medium. Possibly the condensate that comes from Dry Ice.

The non slotted parts of the fretboards could be "mirror" surfaced as well.

Hmmm...

These are things I never dreamed I'd be thinking about without alkaloidal ingestion.

It's a whole new Plateau of existence.

Thanks for the invitation. I used to have to take drugs to get here.

EJL

[This message was edited by Eric West on 02 May 2003 at 03:36 PM.]

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 2 May 2003 3:29 pm

I usually favor the simplest approach when dealing with problems, and the solution to this problem (for almost all of us) has been around for about half a century! The plain old white fretboard (with black frets) suitably addresses this problem, and allows adequate visibility under most all commonly occuring lighting conditions.

Any more "technical" solution would have to be 100% reliable. Can you imagine the ridicule a steeler would face if he had to say...

"Sorry guys, I can't play in G tonight, that fret's burned out!"

Perhaps some of you have been lucky enough to see and hear Tom Kaufman play. Tom is from Maryland, and is almost totally blind. Still, he plays well above average level, and with intonation skills better than some "famous" steelers. And...he does it without angled, jeweled, lighted, phosphorescent, or "sliced" fretboards.

Imagine that. [This message was edited by Donny Hinson on 02 May 2003 at 04:30 PM.]

Stephen Gambrell · Post by **Stephen Gambrell** » 2 May 2003 4:53 pm

I thought if we put our heads together, we could help Ms. Henneman, who has a genuine vision problem, to better see her fretboard.
I think the luminescent wire, described in another post, would be the way to go. Mr. Hankey, your desire to see your absurdly abstract thoughts in print, is only making this more difficult. Who cares what the speed of light is, if you can't see it?

Steve Cochran · Post by **Steve Cochran** » 2 May 2003 8:08 pm

Just a thought from an absolute novice steel guiar owner. Can't call myself a player yet.

How about a drilled out bar with a low powered laser built installed to point to your raised front mounted fretboard? Frets could be treated to react strongly under laser light. Might be good in low light situations for those with good vision too.

Steve Cochran

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 3 May 2003 2:30 am

Steve C.,

I fear that the laser is fraught with distractible qualities, that would impede my thinking ahead of the melody lines. It would be too adversely conflicting with the effort to concentrate musically.
Thanks, and good luck in the future playing the steel guitar.

Bill H.

Colin Keyworth · Post by **Colin Keyworth** » 3 May 2003 7:17 am

perhaps this guy could sort you out with an idea,looks fun to me www.simscustom.com

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Sho-Bud LDGsp,levinson Blade,Peavey session 400 Limited,Boss GT-3

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 3 May 2003 9:28 am

Colin K.,

There are many things to look for when shopping around for who's who, or what's what. The light emitting diode is one of many contrivances that has made its way into music circles. What ever happened to proper lighting, or say someone playing an acoustic guitar with the skill of Ramon Montoya? Lost arts, if anything might explain why the Flamenco guitarists are rarely heard. What matters most, after all the words, is what you hear coming out of the amplifier, once you've begun to play the steel guitar.

Bill H.[This message was edited by Bill Hankey on 03 May 2003 at 02:03 PM.]

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 3 May 2003 10:44 am

Bill. Odd you should mention the Flamenco Guitar.

In 1968 I studied with Esteven Antunez a Cuban National who had defected from the Cuban National Symphony in 1963. I took three years of lessons in Classical and Flamenco guitar from him here in Portland and played a couple recitals. I also got to see and meet Carlos Montoya and Andres Segovia. REAL masters.

I don't remember EVER seeing a marking on ANY of my or their fretboards denoting any of the frets, 3, 5, 8,12, or other. Looking at ones hands was strictly verboten anyhow. Probably still is. THe only actual "Job" I played was with the American Theatre Company in Portland in 70, where I played a rendition of La Traviata, while attired as a mexican peasant. I played totally in the dark to start and only the slightest amount of light.

When Andres Segovia played at The Madrid Music Conservatory in 1919 I'm not sure they had very good lighting.

Seen a lot of violin players as well with no frets OR markers.

How, or why was that?

Possibly they are in line for a "new invention"....

Possibly we actually need a "Better Mouse" at this point, as the mousetraps are pretty much at a plateau, especially with all the Moustrap Designers out of work right now..

EJL[This message was edited by Eric West on 03 May 2003 at 11:50 AM.]

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 3 May 2003 11:56 am

Eric W.

Why Eric, I never would have guessed that your musical background included the study of Flamenco style guitar. And you are so right about the secrecy that the great masters insist upon. Ramon's father would punish him severely if he tried to see what he was playing. I've read that Ramon hid in the closet where he could hear his father play. He was so perceptive that he was able to play what he heard. I'm really thrilled at learning that you appreciate the acoustic guitar, and particularly Flamenco style. By all means, congratulations for the accomplishment.

Bill H.

Eddie Malray · Post by **Eddie Malray** » 3 May 2003 12:57 pm

Bill: I can't help but wondering----are you serious about all this crap?

Johan Jansen · Post by **Johan Jansen** » 3 May 2003 1:04 pm

The best way to learn playing in tune, is just listening to what you are doing, learn to play blindfolded. Then you even will sound in tune on a BBQ!
Improving an instrument is fine, for freaks they built homes

Earnest Bovine · Post by **Earnest Bovine** » 3 May 2003 1:25 pm

Bill: I can't help but wondering----are you serious about all this crap?

I think that Mr Hankey is not serious about the crap, but he is serious about everything else. I only wish that I could play steel guitar with half of the style of Mr Hankey's prose.

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 3 May 2003 1:31 pm

To bad Steven Hawking isn't a steeler, we could use him in this thread.

Due to bar coverage we often can't see the fretlines, and due to paralax and shifting seating perspectives we can't see the lines accurately relative to bar position anyway.
So exact precision is a bit moot.

The fret markers are only aproximate references at best. Seeing them better in bad lighting;T hat seems to be the goal.

Some fiber optics shinning on the white fret lines would make low light bar/fretline referencing easier. [This message was edited by David L. Donald on 03 May 2003 at 02:33 PM.]

Mike Marchelya · Post by **Mike Marchelya** » 3 May 2003 10:51 pm

Why is this thread suggesting a chromatic tuner for each string and a corresponding series of electrodes in the seat cushion? Left zap = flat; right zap = sharp...

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 3 May 2003 11:57 pm

Mike

I'm afraid I got the patent on the Eric West Spincternome, ( An Electric Fence unit married to a Seth Thomas metronome with a washable stainless Steel electrode) a Rythmic Uniformity Aid for drummers. Adjustable by other band members. ) (Usually the electrode doesn't really need to be washed between drummers. Just shaken or wiped on the drummer towel.)

I later amended it to include the Eric West Electro-Tuning Spanker, which uses the same principle with a Korg Tuner, a gentle negative/positive stimulation system, a similar electric fence unit, and a "Glissando Gate" which is fully adjustable as well as a Vibrato Limiter. At this point no "other band member controls" or "reverb limiters" are in the works, and I didn't try them in the prototype. Not with the bands I work with anyhow.

It sure put some "pep" in my playing.

I'm in negotiations...

EJL

There is, at this point Mike, no new thing under the sun, I fear.

Not when it comes to PSG technology.

Steve Feldman · Post by **Steve Feldman** » 4 May 2003 7:56 am

I think that Mr Hankey is not serious about the crap, but he is serious about everything else. I only wish that I could play steel guitar with half of the style of Mr Hankey's prose.

Mr. Bovine -
I shall be laconic. Mr. Hankey's florid verbiage strikes me as circumlocutory, bordering on supercilious - perhaps even tautological in nature. Don't you agree?

John Rickard · Post by **John Rickard** » 4 May 2003 8:48 am

The "Transparent Hand" is the secret!
JR

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Slide It On Over!