Where is Pedal Steel going? Here for one.

Niels Andrews · Post by **Niels Andrews** » 11 Jun 2013 1:39 pm

http://youtu.be/O8Rf4jOu6Go

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 11 Jun 2013 4:47 pm

you mean kinda back to the jerry garcia era?

Niels Andrews · Post by **Niels Andrews** » 11 Jun 2013 4:55 pm

Without the harpsichord.

John Scanlon · Post by **John Scanlon** » 12 Jun 2013 11:13 am

More unnecessary Garcia hating.

Thanks for sharing.

Stuart Legg · Post by **Stuart Legg** » 12 Jun 2013 11:21 am

Bet you didn't see the Garcia thing coming in this topic did you?

John Scanlon · Post by **John Scanlon** » 12 Jun 2013 12:11 pm

I think it's more poster-dependent than thread-dependent.

Alan Tanner · Post by **Alan Tanner** » 12 Jun 2013 1:01 pm

WHO is Jerry Garcia????

Barry Blackwood · Post by **Barry Blackwood** » 12 Jun 2013 1:30 pm

Where is Pedal Steel going? Here for one.

I think it has already been there some time ago.

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 12 Jun 2013 1:44 pm

that was my point. sort of a playing style like jerry's on a pleasant folk rock tune. i like jerry and that era of music. wasn't starting a flame session, just saying this wasn't new territory.
obviously it's some others of you who want the drama.

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 12 Jun 2013 1:45 pm

Underlying the "Garcia problem" is the fact that he played melodic, song-appropriate steel guitar that was the polar opposite of the Nashville shred-steel school - which never met a 32nd note that didn't get played.

When you've spent years of practicing 6, 8, 12 hours a day to even approximate the fastest playing of people like Emmons, Franklin, Jernigan - who are better than you*, not just faster - to have some hairy drug-addled bum come along and kidnap "your" instrument and achieve great acclaim by playing parts other drug-addled hairy people can hum and whistle - eek. What is the meaning of life etc.

I am qualified to diagnose this syndrome because of sixy transfer credits - my decade-long attempts to BE Steve Morse, only to find I would've been better off imitating Jerry Garcia instead!

*(They're also better-looking, richer, kinder to strangers and your dog will leave you for them if he gets a chance. S'called "life"....)

Mark Eaton · Post by **Mark Eaton** » 12 Jun 2013 1:52 pm

No need for this to become Garcia thread version 353, or whatever the number happens to be.

According to the credits, the pedal steel player on the tune is apparently the Bay Area's own Bruce Kaphan.

steve takacs · Post by **steve takacs** » 12 Jun 2013 9:01 pm

Well said, David Mason. I appreciate pedal steel players who can shred it, but feel that melody overrides that, at least in my book. I suppose one could attempt to do both at the same time but what would happen to the melody? How many singers can even string together 16 bars chalk full of 32nd notes? stevet

Niels Andrews · Post by **Niels Andrews** » 12 Jun 2013 9:20 pm

Where is the market?

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 13 Jun 2013 2:22 pm

I don't think most players really hate Jerry Garcia, but there is this fascination which many players have as to exactly how he became so famous on the instrument. Like it or not, Jerry freely admitted he wasn't much of a player, and if I remember the quote correctly, he said something like "It would take me a whole 'nother lifetime to become proficient on this thing."

Have we all forgotten Tiny Tim, Fabian, or C.W. McCall?

Fame, sometimes, is nothing more than being in the right place at the right time, and doing what no one else is doing. Neither the lovers not the loathers need to rationalize why he was or wasn't great...because it's likely a silly argument either way. What matters ( or should matter) to all of us is that he brought many people to recognize and appreciate the instrument, and I feel that in the grand scheme of things, whether that was through dumb luck or sublime talent, is rather inconsequential. $:\$

Joel Meginsky · Post by **Joel Meginsky** » 13 Jun 2013 6:56 pm

The steel guitar isn't "going" anywhere. It's an inanimate object. The best it can hope for is to find some players who are bold and imaginative and have some thing to say musically. The steel might end up being a part of a revolutionary approach to music making. Or not. I'm sure there are now lots of people working on finding new contexts for this unique instrument. How about you?

Peter Freiberger · Post by **Peter Freiberger** » 13 Jun 2013 7:03 pm

How much Garcia hating is necessary, before it enters the realm of unnecessary Garcia hating?

Josh Braun · Post by **Josh Braun** » 14 Jun 2013 7:58 am

I listened to the clip and really like the playing on it.

Maybe that's because I come from a pop/Americana perspective? For _me_ that means stuff like Son Volt, Wilco, the Wood Brothers, etc. The steel guitar that enthralls me is the stuff Greg Leisz plays. And if I reach for older stuff, it's usually The Flying Burrito Brothers with Sneaky Pete and not something Buddy Emmons has played on (and not because I don't like Emmons - I do).

I take it that's different from some of the other folks on this forum based on the comments.

My main instrument is the electric guitar, and I play a fair amount of country. In that space there's room for technicians and simpler players, and both shine when they play for the song. Seems to me Jerry, and the guy in Victor Krummenacher's song, both do that. So what's the big deal I say? My $.02

Jim Cooley · Post by **Jim Cooley** » 14 Jun 2013 9:27 am

I'll probably get change back from my 2 cents, but I thought that the steel playing was tasteful and fit the song. Isn't that what matters? Besides, maybe that's how the singer or producer wanted it. I like to hear steel in as many genres as possible, and commend the effort. I'll go see where I can spend my other penny now.

Brint Hannay · Post by **Brint Hannay** » 14 Jun 2013 10:06 am

Donny Hinson wrote:I don't think most players really hate Jerry Garcia, but there is this fascination which many players have as to exactly how he became so famous on the instrument. Like it or not, Jerry freely admitted he wasn't much of a player, and if I remember the quote correctly, he said something like "It would take me a whole 'nother lifetime to become proficient on this thing."

Have we all forgotten Tiny Tim, Fabian, or C.W. McCall?

Fame, sometimes, is nothing more than being in the right place at the right time, and doing what no one else is doing. Neither the lovers not the loathers need to rationalize why he was or wasn't great...because it's likely a silly argument either way. What matters ( or should matter) to all of us is that he brought many people to recognize and appreciate the instrument, and I feel that in the grand scheme of things, whether that was through dumb luck or sublime talent, is rather inconsequential. $:\$

How Jerry Garcia became a famous steel player: He became famous, then he took up the steel. The other way around doesn't work as well, fame-wise. (Robert Randolph being the rare exception.)

***This is NOT meant as any comment about Garcia himself!***

Mark Eaton · Post by **Mark Eaton** » 14 Jun 2013 12:47 pm

I actually supply the name of the steel player for the piece of music around which the thread was started, and eight posts later, zero mention of this individual, though some did enjoy the playing itself. Apparently the musician himself is of no interest, and the thread receives replies about the steel playing of a guy who has been dead for 18 years this August because the style in the song might be somewhat reminiscent of the dead guy.

Bruce Kaphan is alive and well, and has quite the resume' - check out his discography:

http://www.brucekaphan.com/pages/Discography.php

Disclaimer: the following is not directed at anyone posting in this thread, but sometimes a "groundswell" of interest necessitates change.

Maybe this way Bruce Kaphan might get a little screen time here.

b0b, I really think "due to popular demand" and in the interest of organization that it's time to add some new topic categories to the Forum...the people have spoken!

Today's Country Music On Mainstream Radio Sucks

Robert Randolph: It's Not REAL Pedal Steel Playing

Jerry Garcia: It Ticks Me Off That People Think He Was Any Good On Pedal Steel

Jay Yuskaitis · Post by **Jay Yuskaitis** » 14 Jun 2013 1:15 pm

After reading some of the comments here, my own humble opinion would be, "with the coal oil lamps and high button shoes". Jay Y.

Brint Hannay · Post by **Brint Hannay** » 14 Jun 2013 1:23 pm

It's too easy to blur the distinction between a Forum thread and a conversation, in which when someone says something you feel like responding to, you do, regardless of whether it's holding to an original topic. My apologies.

Over and out.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 14 Jun 2013 1:57 pm

David Mason wrote:Underlying the "Garcia problem" is the fact that he played melodic, song-appropriate steel guitar that was the polar opposite of the Nashville shred-steel school - which never met a 32nd note that didn't get played.

Yeah, right. Practically none of them "Nashville guys" know anything about "melodic, song-appropriate steel guitar", do they?

Prolly a good thing ol' Charlie Parker never heard all that blistering stuff Hughey did behind Conway Twitty and Loretta Lynn. He'd 'a hung up his horn for sure!

Dave Hepworth · Post by **Dave Hepworth** » 14 Jun 2013 1:58 pm

As Frank Zappa said " shut up and play yer guitar"-such a waste of time of arguing about a concept that is so subjective. Steel guitar-like every other modern instrument is a broad Church and there is room for everyone ,as such the future of steel guitar is assured -particularly as its sound is unique in its production of notes.

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 14 Jun 2013 2:59 pm

Well, I like speed, I crave speed, I work towards it somewhere on some thing at least a bit every day; I also like to make trouble.

There are really rather few things that can be objectively compared from one player to the next, or, as is such a constant undercurrent here, compared from one instrument to the next. The differing matchups between player's and listener's emotional centerpoint and Q-width alone make for favorites, not greatests.

But speed is comparable and measurable, and I think most people who have played a while and worked towards it can understand and hear the difference between someone who's got a few licks or families of licks cranked up to a certain velocity (all wobbly-like) and someone who has set about developing comprehensive methods that lets them drop the hammer at will. Especially when improvising; when you hear a player play the same solo at a live show that they recorded on a CD years back, that's not what I'm thinking about.

There's way too much music to listen to (and play) for me to make any extended survey, but I can say I've only heard two steel guitarists who seemed somehow unbound by the conventions that limit steel speed - Buddy Emmons and Dave Easley. I haven't heard much of Paul Franklin's C6th playing, but the man almost seems to prefer tastefulness! Imagine that.

And people who've taken up an emotive instrument like this AND put in the years to get really good at it (enough to show some speed?) can make rocks cry, if/when they slow down enough. I kinda doubt the Idol/CMT crowd give you brownie points for that anymore.

But to the subject, both Franklin and b0bby lee have mentioned it's actually hard to "play like Garcia" - snicker at will, but at the very least he had that sneaky attack thing working, where you hit notes when you're moving to them - it can sound like volume pedal technique, without using a volume pedal. Manual "envelope control" using your hands - I know it requires enough gain on the preamp that notes are "borrowing" energy from each other, and that's almost opposite of what many steel players prefer. The tasteful sacred steel guys (YKWIM

) can play in this neighborhood, the six-string blues-tubers call it "bloom."

And to the real subject, Mr. Kaphan is showing a lot of envelope control, more so than I noticed on his own CDs. Somebody should hire this guy....

The Steel Guitar Forum

Where is Pedal Steel going? Here for one.

Where is Pedal Steel going? Here for one.

As Mr jeff Newman said: just play the melody

Where is "it' going?

Where is the pedal steel going ?