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Topic: Comparison - Lace Alumitone and George L pickup |
Nick Waugh
From:
United Kingdom
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Posted 2 Jun 2013 6:27 am |
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Hi All
This is my first post since joining the forum. I have been reading about the Lace tone bar pickup for pedal steel and I need some advice. I have a carter DB10 that I purchased about 5 years ago. The pick up is a Greorge L and I don't have any major complaints about it. However, the Lace pickup sounds like it might improve the tone of my steel. The testimonials say that there is a superior separation of each note when you play a chord and the cleanest, truest sound of any pickup.
My question is, is this pick up superior to a Greorge L? Or is it just different. If it is just different, what is the difference. I want to improve my sound.
I welcome your advice
Warm regards
Nick |
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Jon Light (deceased)
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 2 Jun 2013 6:48 am
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In a playing field of professional quality pickups which both of these are, there is no better of worse. Only different. A good player will make any of these pickups work for them. The choice of pickups at that level is just a matter of sonic preference.
A player still trying to develop touch and tone will not benefit much by changing pickups (assuming the pickup is in proper working condition). |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 2 Jun 2013 6:53 am
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this ongoing question can best be answered by the question, 'what did paul f. or buddy e. or john h. use'?
answer: talent! practice! once you reach their class of expertise you may want to experiment some if you're still not satisfied. |
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Howard Parker
From:
Maryland
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Posted 2 Jun 2013 7:26 am
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From the duplicated thread:
| Howard Parker wrote: |
My BCT era Carter D-10. My right hand.
The Lace gave the E9 neck more "bite", especially above the 15th fret. More of an Emmons single coil quality.
That was the effect I was desiring.
That may/may not be better for you. |
-and-
| Howard Parker wrote: |
| What does "improve" mean to you? |
Just for the sake of completeness.  |
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 2 Jun 2013 7:32 am
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| I have a friend that had a Weenik steel custom built. He intended to use a Lace pickup on it but after trying the Lace it was rejected and he wound up with a George L's E-66 and very happy. |
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Howard Parker
From:
Maryland
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Posted 2 Jun 2013 7:37 am
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| Jack Stoner wrote: |
| I have a friend that had a Weenik steel custom built. He intended to use a Lace pickup on it but after trying the Lace it was rejected and he wound up with a George L's E-66 and very happy. |
Jack,
Any idea how he based the decision? |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 2 Jun 2013 8:06 am
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| Howard Parker wrote: |
| Jack Stoner wrote: |
| I have a friend that had a Weenik steel custom built. He intended to use a Lace pickup on it but after trying the Lace it was rejected and he wound up with a George L's E-66 and very happy. |
Jack,
Any idea how he based the decision? |
My guess would be that he used his ears. The George L was probably closer to the sound he had in his head that he was trying to find.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 55 years and still counting. |
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Howard Parker
From:
Maryland
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Posted 2 Jun 2013 8:08 am
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| Quote: |
| My guess would be that he used his ears. |
I'm glad he didn't use some other organ... 
h |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 2 Jun 2013 8:54 am
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I'd second what Jon said, without reservation.
George L doesn't make a bad pickup, even though you didn't specify which one you have.
As you're still in the early stages, any pickup will do splendidly, and you wouldn't hear a noticeable improvement if you spent all afternoon in Dave Hartley's basement.
And you have a good one there. Get started making noise with your right hand, it'll find your tone after awhile.
I know if I'd thrown money at pickups in my first couple years, I'd have just had poor tone with better string separation.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects
Last edited by Lane Gray on 2 Jun 2013 9:02 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 2 Jun 2013 9:01 am
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| I don't remember exactly what the reason was, maybe Don Sulesky can respond since it was his guitar. But, they tried various spacing between the pickup and the strings and could not come up with what was considered a "good sound". Don has two other guitars, a Sho-Bud with stock pickups and an Emmons Legrande II with Lawrence 710 pickups, for comparison. |
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David Nugent
From:
Gum Spring, Va.
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Posted 2 Jun 2013 12:07 pm
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| The Carter website featured a pickup comparison to enable you to physically hear Carter guitars with most of the major pickup brands and models installed. I believe the Alumitone was included in that comparison. You might try contacting Al Brisco at 'Steel Guitar Canada' (he purchased the remaining Carter inventory when production of Carter guitars ceased) to determine if this may still be available. |
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mike nolan
From:
Forest Hills, NY USA
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Posted 2 Jun 2013 3:14 pm
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Which GeorgeL? I like some of them, but never did like the E 66. I like the Alumitone in 12 string guitars, but not so much in 10 stringers. I have put the same pickup in identical S-10 Sho~Bud S 10s that I had at one time, liked the pickup in one guitar, didn't like it in the other.... it is a complex and slippery slope.
If you are not super unhappy with the sound of your guitar right now, just play it, and leave the pickup swapping for later. |
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Len Amaral
From:
Rehoboth,MA 02769
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Posted 2 Jun 2013 9:23 pm
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I'll second or third what Mr. Light said. In fact, I'll attempt to go a bit further and ask you to find a topic or post called "Buddy Emmons on Tone" It's basically a 4 headed monster and I'll paraphrase:
The signature tone starts with your hands. Then the voicing of the guitar itself, then the pickup then the off board gear, amps, speakers and effects.
So if you are just starting out, a pickup is a bit down on the list. I agree, the pickup won't matter until you are a bit seasoned in the basics.
Now I will contradict myself! If you want to try a different pickup just to see what it sounds like and you can afford to take a chance then go ahead. I have changed a lot of pickups over the past and the same pickup did not sound the same in a different guitar. Go figure? However, on the Telonics website I believe there is a nifty way of changing a pickup without removing the strings. Pretty cool.
I have a D-12 MSA Super Slide with a G13 neck and the Alumatone (brite with a bite) and the C6 neck I have a George L EON (fuller and a jazz vibe) Now the MSA has a volume and Tone control so throw that into the mix for more tonal shaping.
Sorry for the rant but waiting for the meds to kick in...*L* |
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Don Sulesky
From:
Citrus County, FL, Orig. from MA & NH
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Posted 3 Jun 2013 6:48 am
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To answer your question on the choice of pickup.
After trying a "True Tone" which had too many mid, muddy overtones, we tried the "Lace" which didn't work.
I was looking for a tone somewhere between my ShoBud SuperPro and my Emmons LeGrande II because we designed the Weenick around those two steels with several modifications.
The body of the steel was made out of a special order Tiger Maple 3/4" thick. So there is plenty of mass to the body of the steel.
The Geo L, E-66 seemed to be the best choice as it worked out.
Yes, I did use my ears.
Don
_________________
Private one on one lessons available
Member: FSGC, PSGA, TSGA
Co-founder: Florida Steel Guitar Club
"Steel guitar is like playing chess in the dark with three players". Jeff Newman quote from 1997 seminar |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 3 Jun 2013 7:45 am Re: Comparison - Lace Alumitone and George L pickup
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| Nick Waugh wrote: |
Hi All
...the Lace pickup sounds like it might improve the tone of my steel. The testimonials say that there is a superior separation of each note when you play a chord and the cleanest, truest sound of any pickup. |
Those who use and like this pickup will, of course, say that. Those who don't will not. Whenever you look at "testimonials", it's important to look not only at the comments of those in favor, but also at the comments of those who do not favor a certain piece of equipment.
And this goes for anything.  |
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Bill Moore
From:
Manchester, Michigan
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Posted 3 Jun 2013 7:47 am
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| I haven't tried the Alumitone in a Carter, but I did put one on a Rittenberry. I felt that it had a kind of "sterile" sound to it. Now I'm using a George L PF-1 on that guitar and I'm happy with it. On Carter guitars, I've tried several pickups, I have a Carter S-10 right now, with a George L 10-1 on it. I'm very happy with that. Just what works for me. |
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Nick Waugh
From:
United Kingdom
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Posted 9 Jun 2013 1:16 am Thanks for all your responses
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Thank you for all your replies. It has been really helpful. After having read all of your advice, I have decided to stay with the pickup I have.
I do struggle to get tone. I find that when I'm using the lower strings, or playing the 5 and 8 strings together, I get great tone. However, if I'm playing the 4 and 5 strings together or playing single notes on the top strings, it does sound thin. I originally used an Ernie Ball volume pedal - when I changed this for a Hilton, the tone improved hugely. However, I am not satisfied with the thin sound I get from the top strings. Is this caused by my right hand technique? |
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Craig Baker
From:
Eatonton, Georgia, USA - R.I.P.
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Posted 9 Jun 2013 1:54 am Thin Sound
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Hi Nick,
Wonder what string guages you're using. Sid Hudson over at Live Steel Strings suggested an 011 or even an 012 for the third string, and try larger guages for the remaining un-wound strings. The result was a noticeably more powerful sound in the top strings. Hope this suggestion helps.
Best regards,
Craig Baker
706-485-8792
cmbakerelectronics@gmail.com
C.M. Baker Electronics
P.O. Box 3965
Eatonton, GA 31024 |
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Nick Waugh
From:
United Kingdom
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Posted 9 Jun 2013 3:07 am
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| What about using Nickel wound strings - I understand these are not so bright and perhaps warmer in tone? |
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Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
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Posted 9 Jun 2013 3:46 am
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Unless you are using a wound string on position #6, only strings 7-10 of the E9th tuning are wound, so the plain strings you're referencing would not be affected by changing alloys. The lower wound strings would probably be a bit mellower with nickel v. stainless, yes.
As to pickups designs, as you can see, almost everyone has a different opinion. The only way for you to tell what will work on your guitar is to try it yourself.
That's what the rest of us have to do.
In my experience, the Lace pickup has a more evenly balanced tone and volume across the strings compared to 3 different models of GL's I've tried. Only my opinion, and as they say, YMMV.
And FWIW, if you're considering other options, the Telonics company builds pickups that have adjustable pole pieces etc. to completely tailor your sound, I hear. |
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David Nugent
From:
Gum Spring, Va.
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Posted 9 Jun 2013 4:07 am
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| You might try a set of the brass Dunlop finger picks. While they may not make a huge difference, I find the brass picks to give a slightly warmer tone than the steel units...FYI: You may also want to check your right hand position. The closer to the bridge that you pick, the brighter your tone will be. |
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Darrell Birtcher
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Posted 9 Jun 2013 4:34 am
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Nick,
While I strongly agree that tone is in the hands, I encourage you to try different equipment in your quest for better tone. Equipment, ESPECIALLY pickups, does make a huge difference, and getting new and/or better tones from it will help you find YOUR tone. When you find a sound that suits you it will make you want to practice more, and that is a good thing.
It's never too early to experiment with technique and tone. Think of tone experiments as a form of practice too. Just like technique, you will find things that work and things that don't. Just about all of us are on a never ending quest for better tone, so don't fight it. We want that magical inspiration that is somehow released by the perfect tone. |
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Nick Waugh
From:
United Kingdom
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Posted 9 Jun 2013 12:06 pm
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| Really helpful responses once again. I really appreciate your time and energy. |
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Peter den Hartogh
From:
Cape Town, South Africa
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Posted 9 Jun 2013 1:37 pm
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| I used .018 finger picks. When I changed to .025 it made a huge difference. |
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Nick Waugh
From:
United Kingdom
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Posted 10 Jun 2013 4:43 am
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| I have been using Jeff Newman picks but I don't know what gauge they are as it is not stated on the pick. However, I find the dunlop picks flimsy compared to JF or National picks. I will now get hold of some .025 picks to see if that thicken the tone. Please keep the advice coming |
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