Robert Randolph's New Pedal Steel

Dennis Olearchik · Post by **Dennis Olearchik** » 11 Apr 2003 6:57 pm

Sage, any more info about how this baby is coming along?
http://www.harmosmusic.com/images/MVC-452F-clnB.jpg

jim milewski · Post by **jim milewski** » 11 Apr 2003 7:05 pm

wild, believe it our not,,,it makes sense to me

Rich Weiss · Post by **Rich Weiss** » 11 Apr 2003 9:01 pm

A friend of mine played this a few months ago. I believe he said that all the bugs had not yet been worked out at that time. The way it's put together, very tight and with no slop, supposedly eliminates the need for a cabinet with a lot of mass. It's very light. I believe he also makes a lap steel, which sounds amazing. Is this correct, Sage? I'm going by my memory, which is very short-term.

[This message was edited by Rich Weiss on 11 April 2003 at 10:09 PM.]

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 12 Apr 2003 1:14 am

How does the changer work? Can it do multiple raises and nlowers?

Are there any knee levers?

Dennis Olearchik · Post by **Dennis Olearchik** » 12 Apr 2003 3:30 am

Two more pics...
http://www.harmosmusic.com/news.htm#PressRelease

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 12 Apr 2003 5:28 am

Well it's certainly beyond the conventional Steel..I thought that the new MSA was the new "Carbon FIBER" technology..No ?

Knee Levers ? ..good question ..

Maybe they will become extinct ...

In can see it now..new players that Robert has introduced to the Pedal Steel will get hooked and go out to buy one, They will see a conventional Emmons or a Fessy , heck even the new MSA , and maybe even a Carter and say..

"Thats not a Pedal Steel "

"I want a real Pedal Steel like Robert plays" ...

One never knows...

TP

[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 12 April 2003 at 06:35 AM.]

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 12 Apr 2003 7:24 am

Believe it or not, there are players who can play without 12 knee levers and without a 6 raise/6 lower changer.

Chris Forbes · Post by **Chris Forbes** » 12 Apr 2003 8:25 am

It's certainly not your father's Sho-Bud (nor mine for that matter!!).

Dennis Olearchik · Post by **Dennis Olearchik** » 12 Apr 2003 10:05 am

I fell in luv with the looks and sounds of the 60's era Fender pedal steels (w/the beautiful sunburst finishes).

In the 70's, I became aware of Sho-Buds and ZBs and I fell in luv with these guitars as well.

Since then, these guitars have defined (for me!) what a PSG is all about (even though they're no longer made).

But imho, I think Sage is doing something wonderful and significant in developing this new pedal steel guitar.

I just hope it doesn't cost $6k and I can get it with a combintion of Aiello/lLollar and MIDI pick-ups

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 12 Apr 2003 10:37 am

Looks like something from the movie "Brazil".

Seriously, I'd like to know how this thing works. At first glance it looks like it would be very limited mechanically, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. Some of the greatest steel music ever made was on "limited" instruments.

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/b0b.gif" width="64" height="64">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (C6add9), Sierra Laptop 8 (D13), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6),
Roland Handsonic, Line 6 Variax

Gene Jones · Post by **Gene Jones** » 12 Apr 2003 11:46 am

I played a Tiesco pedal steel in Korea for several months that had pedal hookups like that......They were actually motorcycle throttle cables and worked fairly well as long as I kept them lubricated. www.genejones.com

Sage · Post by **Sage** » 13 Apr 2003 12:24 pm

Howdy all- Thanks for the questions. Dennis O, It is finally working and with Robert somewhere. He used it to record a couple of songs on his new album. One of them is the old gospel standard "Nobody", which is a kickin' song. I got a LOT of help from some great friends to be able to build this. You should know that this is the first and only pedal steel I have ever made, and it is consequently kind of rough. It was a proof of concept prototype- I wanted to try some design principles and see how they turned out. Jim, it is wild and I had the idea for it over ten years ago when I sold my '64 Dodge Dart for a box of tools and enough cash to start making models and crude prototypes. Rich, Lap steels are what we make at Harmos Steel Guitars. The carbon fiber octet truss body is exactly the same that is used on our lap steels, weighing less than one pound. With 13 strings @ about 380 lbs of tension plus the force of the changes bearing against it, the frame does an amazing job holding it all together. The body is mounted to the perimiter frame (round tubes) at four points (Thank you Leo Fender). One end is bolted firmly and the other end floats a little, to compensate for the different thermal expansion rates of carbon fiber and aluminum. Mike, there are 5 knee levers. The changer was made by Glenn Taylor in Denver. Glenn Taylor, Joshua Motohashi and I used to go out for lunch years ago in Denver and talk pedal steel design. We dreampt up the idea of putting the tuners on top of the changer fingers, and putting the whole thing over on the nut end. That leaves the guitar with a fixed bridge that can interact with the body like a lap steel, and moves the mechanical noise away from the pickups. My children came along earlier than Glenn's did, and he followed through and became the first builder I know of to do this. He has built several beautiful MOYO guitars (his brand, which means HEART) with this type of changer. It is a Klein style unit, so it can be made to pull just about anything, but not easy for changing setups. There are 29 pulls on Robert's setup, and it was like building three ships in a bottle to get them inside of the spaceframe. Not a commercial design. When I thought this thing up, I was anticipating that servo changers would work. Well, they may be closer than some think (and may still not ultimately be the thing), but at the time I started making this one (two years ago) they might as well have been on the moon. When I first began over ten years ago, I figured that my design was about 25 years ahead of it's time. Hey folks- less than 15 to go! A lot of good ideas could be tried to further the development of our beloved PSG at this point, but you either have to be independently wealthy with lots of time (not me) or just be persistent and do the best you can with what you have. Frankly, I have a lot of gall even getting into this right now, with so many master builders at the height of their art. That is the main reason that I'm not going to try to make a production version right now. The economics of this industry are bad enough without tilting at windmills with a carbon fiber lance. I love the instrument and wanted to make one that was really hot, that growled and sang and had insane amounts of sustain. One that caught the eye and the imagination, and would hold it's own in today's music. By the grace from beyond and with a lot of help from my friends, I did just that. To see some of the inspiration for this, find the old Pedal Rod article "Food For Thought" by Jeff Newman from about 1990. While the great builders of today have been creating Cadillacs, Lincolns, Rolls, and even a Deusenberg or two (all fine makes), I wanted to make the Ferrari of steel guitars. This prototype isn't ready to wear Enzo's horse yet, but maybe someday. Actually, the curved legs and cables were inspired by the Audi TT. At Dan Tyack's suggestion, I designed it to fold up- the body swings down into the rectangle formed by the leg uprights, and the legs themselves fold into the remaining space. Since it is cable, no pedal rods need to be hooked up. Setup takes about 30 seconds. Weight is 25 lbs total, out of the case. The fretboard in the photo is not the "real" one, I grabbed a reject (bowed) 8 string board because the psg boards hadn't come in yet. The semi-transparent plate on the front of the guitar is a red/purple/blue color shifting hologram with wave patterns and gold/copper reflection. B0b and Gene, It does use bicycle brake cable up through the "manifold" at the bridge end of the guitar, and then the pulls are split into a (more or less) equalized yoke system of 3/32 stainless rod inside of the spaceframe. The pedals are too squishy and inexact, and the effort remains too high on this one. Next time around I'll try something different.
T. Sage Harmos
Harmos Steel Guitars[This message was edited by Sage on 13 April 2003 at 01:52 PM.]

Post by **b0b** » 13 Apr 2003 1:10 pm

I want one, Sage!

Sage · Post by **Sage** » 13 Apr 2003 1:26 pm

Well B0b, we leased the guitar to RR because we couldn't ask a reasonable price and recover the costs of the ONE that I made. So, in about two years what's left of it might be for sale

. Hopefully, by then I'll have another one or two built- who knows? Of course, if someone wants to throw truly silly ammounts of money at me to make another one now, I'll be happy to.

Thanks.[This message was edited by Sage on 13 April 2003 at 02:28 PM.]

Gene Jones · Post by **Gene Jones** » 13 Apr 2003 3:02 pm

Sage, thank you for your explanation of the design of your prototype guitar....it is without a doubt innovative and worthy of further exploration and I sincerely wish you well in your development of the Harmos.

In reference to my post above, I just want to assure you that my comments were only in reference to the mechanics of the guitar that I was playing, and I did not intend to infer any judgement or comparison to your guitar other than the location and appearance of the cables. I wish you well in the development of your prototype.

Best wishes, www.genejones.com [This message was edited by Gene Jones on 13 April 2003 at 04:08 PM.]

Frank Parish · Post by **Frank Parish** » 13 Apr 2003 4:21 pm

Sage!
How cool that thing is! If you could make a version of this thing that'll stay in tune you could change whole game here. It has a mechanical, black rot iron look about it. It's modern. If it plays good and stays in tune it'll win with a bunch of working musicians me included. What about Titanium tubular design? It's more expensive but light and stronger than steel tubing I hear. If you could make it more affordable than the wood bodies yet sound good you'd have a winner.

Bill Moore · Post by **Bill Moore** » 13 Apr 2003 4:26 pm

Wow, this looks really cool. I'm wondering, though, have you considered using this type of body with a conventional changer,legs, etc. Maybe team up with an established builder and use their parts. The mechanical parts of the PSG have been developed pretty well, maybe a combination of your body design in a more familiar package would work, and be easier to market.

Damir Besic · Post by **Damir Besic** » 13 Apr 2003 6:02 pm

Looks like something out of "Alien" movies,scary look.Wish we can hear it.Can you post a sound clip Sage?

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Drew Howard · Post by **Drew Howard** » 13 Apr 2003 6:27 pm

VERY COOL! You are to be commended on your vision of the future...

cheers,
Drew

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www.newslinkassociates.com
www.drewhoward.com

Rich Weiss · Post by **Rich Weiss** » 13 Apr 2003 6:54 pm

Yes, but what about 3rd string breakage?

Dennis Olearchik · Post by **Dennis Olearchik** » 14 Apr 2003 8:58 am

Sage,

Thanks for giving us the story on this truly unique PSG.

I hope that somewhere along the line, you're somehow rewarded for your ideas and efforts.

All the best,

Dennis

p.s. like b0b,I want one too!

Bill Ford · Post by **Bill Ford** » 14 Apr 2003 10:16 am

Looooong deeeep sigh!!!!!!!!!
If I was young enough to learn one of them contraptions,I'd love to have one...Tho,I would love to look at/play one,great ideas are where great new products emerge. That is in my opinion a great idea!!!!!!!!
My past work history being mechanics/machine tool work,I would like to see how everything is laid out,keep us posted on playability/reliability.

The mp3s sound pretty good...

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Bill Ford

Chuck S. Lettes · Post by **Chuck S. Lettes** » 14 Apr 2003 10:21 am

Hello Sage,
I enjoyed talking with you at the Dallas Show. Are you coming to the Denver Show at the Grizzly Rose on May 4? I hope that you bring some samples of your work. I look forward to seeing you at the Denver show.
Chuck

Eddie Malray · Post by **Eddie Malray** » 14 Apr 2003 5:24 pm

I just looked at the pictures> If this thing sounds like a steel should, you can throw all openions about wood. aluminum, carbon fiber , mica and everything else thats suppose to make a good steel out the window. If the day comes when I have to play something like that---I'm done. Eddie Malray

Kenny Davis · Post by **Kenny Davis** » 14 Apr 2003 6:54 pm

Somebody had better go check on B.S. - He might have had a heart attack after seeing this new guitar!!!

Sage - I enjoyed talking with you briefly at Dallas, and I wish you luck on your pedal guitar.