Emmons or Zum ?

Larry Harlan · Post by **Larry Harlan** » 14 Apr 2003 7:35 pm

Carl, I simply want the P/P sound in a modern, all pull guitar. I see the P/P mechanism, which was Okay in it's day, now as old technology. Hence I want the sound with updated mechanical ability.
John, you're right without a doubt. No one will sound as good as Mr. E on his Blade. But, IMO, all P/P's have the distinct "that sound" that I've chased since the early 1970's.
Roger, each of us have our own idea of the sound they chase after, or what is acceptable to us. I simply want the "Nashville (commercial) P/P Sound," even though it may be a bit different from P/P guitar to P/P guitar, but ALL have "that sound" within that catagory, at least to my ear. I figure with the technology we now have that a person ought to be able to get the sound-tone he wants, and for me, it's simply the "P/P sound in an all pull guitar." Best regards and appreciate your replies.

Patrick Ickes · Post by **Patrick Ickes** » 14 Apr 2003 7:47 pm

Hi Paul,
I went to The Dallas Convention 3 years ago to find a new steel guitar. I wasn't sure what I wanted, and I figured that there would be plenty of vendors there for me to choose from. I looked at and talked to everyone who would listen. During the show, I would stand outside the ballroom door and listen to the players. Everytime I heard a wonderful sounding guitar, I would go in the room and walk up to the stage and look to see what was making that sound. Everytime, except once, the guitar was either a Zumsteel or a P/P Emmons. I was sold on the Zumsteel because of their simple all pull construction and fine quality. Being an Aircraft mechanic by trade, I did not want to be constantly working on the push-pull. I just wanted to play and get that sound I heard in Dallas.....hassle free.
If it's tone, you already have it, it just needs some work. If it's no hassle and tone, get the Zumsteel.
good luck,

Patrick

P.S. the other guitar was Herbie's Mullen.

KENNY KRUPNICK · Post by **KENNY KRUPNICK** » 14 Apr 2003 7:56 pm

Zumsteel!!!

Bobby Boggs · Post by **Bobby Boggs** » 14 Apr 2003 9:03 pm

The Zum is a great guitar no doubt.But if an Emmons type tone is what you're after.Keep the PP and send it to Cass or Brian Adams, Seymour etc.They can fix the tuning problem unless it's a bolt on.

As for the Zum verse Legrande tone.Anyone see the Bellcove jam video with 2 world class players? One play's a Zum the other an Emmons Legrande....I rest my case.---------bb

Doug Seymour · Post by **Doug Seymour** » 15 Apr 2003 12:08 am

Bobby, you are absolutely correct! Great video, great steels, great guys playing them!

Guest · Post by **Guest** » 15 Apr 2003 1:56 am

Thanks for all the different replies on my subject, it makes it a lot easier when steel players give their opinion on their experience with an instrument.

Dennis Olearchik · Post by **Dennis Olearchik** » 15 Apr 2003 4:26 am

Just my $.02. I think there's a significant difference in how each guitar "sounds" not only because of who's playing it but what equipment they're playing through (e.g. amp, speakers, effects, etc.) and other factors like whether you're hearing the player/guitar at a concert hall, jam room, on a CD/record, etc.

As an example, I listened to 5 world-class players at Scotty's (as I was lucky enough to be sitting about 10 ft from 4 of them in the jam room ). Neither the Emmons nor the Zum guitars were the "best sounding" guitars to "my ears". And I luv both brands and have tons of respect for their builders and for the players who were behind the guitars.

All the players were truly awesome (and legends) but the "sound" coming from another brand guitar and different amp set-up was far and away the "best sounding" (to my ears).

So it may be a matter of playing the guitar(s) you're interested in through your amp/effects set-up (or as close as possible) and basing your decision on that experience. Maybe even taping yourself while you're testing out the guitar (and the result could be: cheese louise, that's not the sound that I've been hearing in my head!).

Imho, reading brochures, looking at web-sites, listening to CDs/records and thinking that other people's descriptions of how a guitar "sounds" is exactly what you're after, can be a very expensive disappointment . But then again, maybe not

Joan Cox · Post by **Joan Cox** » 15 Apr 2003 4:31 am

I had a 1972 P/P and played it for about 5 years before I got my first Zum in 1982. The only thing I remember about the P/P was the pedals were hard to push. When I got the Zum, it took a while for me to realize that I didn't have to push so hard on the pedals. I still have that Zum. It will be 21 years old this year, and I wouldn't take nothing for it. It sounds great.I play it every week. So does the newer one I have that is a 1997 model. I'm very happy with my two Zums, and always say that I have the two best ones Bruce ever built.
Joan

Bill Terry · Post by **Bill Terry** » 15 Apr 2003 7:06 am

Paul, you said "for tuning purpose only", meaning 'keeping in tune issues' or 'flexible copedent issues'?

I'd agree with Herb about the copedent thing. IF you don't move things around much, and staying in tune is your issue, a P/P should be no more trouble to maintain and tune than an all-pull guitar, maybe less. I've got a LeGrande and a P/P, and for my money the P/P is way more stable from gig to gig. You gotta have a good setup on a P/P, I think that's the key. Mine is not stiff at all, quite the opposite in fact.

My .02 on Zums... The ones I've seen and played seem to have been designed and constructed with an attention to detail that I found very impressive. Precision is the word I'd use, and of course they sound great.

[This message was edited by Bill Terry on 15 April 2003 at 08:07 AM.]

Billy Woo · Post by **Billy Woo** » 15 Apr 2003 8:51 am

This message is for Earnest Bovine or any others that may be interested, there actually is a 12 string Emmons for sale right now on Ebay with 4 knees, 3 on the floor and it hasnt even hit 900 clams yet, 23 minutes to go before it's gone..

Bronco Billy
Zumsteel-U12

Terry Wendt · Post by **Terry Wendt** » 15 Apr 2003 8:19 pm

good move

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PedalSteel.us Magazine

TheEarlyDays.com

and appearing regularly...aLotOfSpace.com
Jimmy Crawford/Russ Hicks... and Buddy Emmons on Bass!

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 16 Apr 2003 10:11 am

Billy,
I believe Earnest was referring to all-pull Emmons 12-strings and I believe the answer to Earnest's (probably rhetorical) question is, 'when hell freezes over'.

I have a '69 p/p 12-string universal guitar that I will go to my grave with. One of the best sounding 12-strings I've ever heard.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

Craig A Davidson · Post by **Craig A Davidson** » 16 Apr 2003 10:27 am

Let's not forget if it's that sound one is looking for coming out of Nashville most of it is coming out on a Franklin. I myself would say push-pull but then I guess I am biased.

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1985 Emmons push-pull,Evans SS200, Nashville400, 65 re-issue Fender Twin, Fender Tele

Dan Hatfield · Post by **Dan Hatfield** » 16 Apr 2003 2:53 pm

I have a '77 Zum D-10 which I bought when it was about five years old, and to my knowledge has never had any work done on it other than a minor "tune-up and oil change" which Bruce did (in about an hour while I waited) a few weeks ago. In my opinion it still plays like a new one. Hal Rugg was just here for the jazz show and seems to be quite excited about a new Zum which Bruce is building for him as we speak. I can't comment on the Emmons since I have never played one, but I don't believe you can go wrong with the Zum. Dan

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 17 Apr 2003 6:02 am

if it's that sound one is looking for coming out of Nashville

Guess I'm not shackled by that particular constraint.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 17 Apr 2003 9:35 am