What are producers looking for?

Nick Anderson · Post by **Nick Anderson** » 5 Apr 2003 12:10 pm

What are producers looking for in a steel guitar player? What are they primarily interested in?

Is it first tone and type(brand) of steel a player plays, and then technique? Or is it vice-versa?

Does one need to play one of the top brands, such as an Emmons, Franklin, old Bud, etc... to get noticed?

I know that getting a top recording gig is in who you know and being in the right place at the right time.

Would a producer scoff if a player played an unorthodox brand of steel? Would they still be more standoffish if a great player played a U12?

How can a steel guitarist make themselves more adaptable to getting recording gigs and more recommended amoung producers?

Is it also "who knows the most licks, wins?"

Any help with this would be great!

Thanks,
Nick

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MSA S-12

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 5 Apr 2003 4:26 pm

Well, here's my guess (though I must admit I have almost no real qualifications to make such assumptions).

They want someone who can add to, but not "clutter up" the mix. They want something that is definitely steel, but doesn't have the cliche'd old "whiney" sound. They want someone with excellent timing, intonation, and imagination, but they don't want anyone who "overplays", or wants to be noticed. They must be comfortable with playing simple stuff, and being well back in the mix. They want to hear what can't be done by anyone on a straight guitar, or a synth. They want someone who is totally reliable, knowledgeable (can almost sight-read, and play flawlessly by ear, as well), and who takes direction well. They must also be able to "wing it", or "burn it", should the need arise. They want someone who can play at short notice, at odd hours, and who will not make any "judgements" about the material they're asked to play. They probably don't really care what brand you play (as long as it's a good one) because they can now "tailor" your sound to suit their needs. And, oh yes, someone who can get along with everybody.

"Better to keep your mouth closed and be thought a fool, than to open it and remove all doubt."

Ben Franklin said that. And no, he never played steel.

Earnest Bovine · Post by **Earnest Bovine** » 5 Apr 2003 4:44 pm

I've never worked for anybody who cared what brand of steel I played, or how many strings, or how many necks. But I have heard that producers care about those things in Nashville (I'm in Los Angeles).

"Better to keep your mouth closed and be thought a fool, than to open it and remove all doubt."

I always thought this was from Mark Twain, who also said "I'm told that Wagner's music is not as bad as it sounds."

[This message was edited by Earnest Bovine on 05 April 2003 at 04:50 PM.]

Bill Ford · Post by **Bill Ford** » 5 Apr 2003 4:48 pm

------------------------------------------Ben Franklin said that. And no, he never played steel.
------------------------------------------
I've heard old Ben was lightning with a kite tho!!!!!!

Pete Drake said it best a long time ago,Keep it simple, play what you're told ,when you're told,and how you're told.
That still holds true today..
BF

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Bill Ford

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 5 Apr 2003 5:32 pm

* positive and confident
* get it the first time
* melodic
* good ear for harmonies
* ability to lay the right place in the track
* occasionally, clairvoyance
* fresh when you need to be; traditional when you need to be

Put it all together it spells Paul Franklin.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 2000 Fessenden S-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

Nick Anderson · Post by **Nick Anderson** » 5 Apr 2003 5:44 pm

Can you guys tell me more about the equipment factor.

Is it strictly NashVegas that is set on S10/D10 guitars?

Thanks,
Nick

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MSA S-12

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 5 Apr 2003 5:55 pm

I don't recall a producer ever saying anything about any of my equipment. He was looking for a sound and I was doing my best to give it to him.

I'm sure most producers on any level of success will see more D-10s than they will S-12's, but I can count on one hand the number of times they were looking for anything that went beyond the 3 pedals and 4 or 5 knee levers you usually find on E9. They might find it cool that you can play swing or jazz but it's been said many times: the E9 neck is the money neck. The producer probably called you in because he wanted a COUNTRY sound.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 2000 Fessenden S-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

mtulbert · Post by **mtulbert** » 5 Apr 2003 7:54 pm

From my past experience in the studio as an engineer working with some of the best and worst producers in Nashville during the 70's, the best sessions we did were those which the producer let the pickers put the song together after he gave them the general direction of where he wanted the tune to go. Nothig was ever said about type of steel. Problems could arise if a producer had an idea of how he thought a steel should sound and make a comment if it didn't sound that way.

I do recall one producer making a comment to Stu Basore when he came in with an MCI. It sounded great to me but the producer was used to the Emmons sound and questioned what was going on. When I pointed out to him that it was a different steel and that the sound was unique he began to adjust to it and really wound up digging it.

As far as overplaying goes...in three years of working with the best, I don't recall a producer ever saying that what was played was too much or too little or inappropriate. Of course I had to honor to work with the best; Buddy,Hal,Weldon,Stu,Lloyd,Pete Drake, a few with Curly Chalker. I regret that I never had the opportunity to work with John Hughey.

Regards,

Mark T.

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 6 Apr 2003 1:44 am

As somene who does produce, for myself and others, I have two real criteria.

1.) the player listens to me and/or the artist.
and more importantly
2.) Inspired good taste

You can't do 1 without 2

Other thoughts. If your going after a specific producer, listen to his past work and learn it's basics. Particularly the most recent stuff. Then you are most of the way to pleasing them and going to the next place they might be going.
Of course a good producer can shift gears to another style to fit the act they are producing. Some mostly do the same schtik and attract those that want that style.
Others do what ever comes their way and look at it uniquely each time. I prefer the latter aproach.

Hope this helps.[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 06 April 2003 at 08:44 AM.]

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 6 Apr 2003 1:52 am

* P ositive and confident
* A ble to get it the first time
* U nusually melodic
* L ovely ear for harmonies

* F inding the right place in the track
* R eal clairvoyance
* A fresh approach when needed;
* N icely traditional
* K ind and considerate
* L earned on the instrument
* I ntuative
* N ever late

Put it all together it spells Paul Franklin.
Works for me!

[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 06 April 2003 at 01:53 AM.]

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 6 Apr 2003 4:23 am

David,
If you ever quit the music business I believe you have a bright future with Hallmark Cards.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 2000 Fessenden S-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 6 Apr 2003 5:23 am

David,,you have got it down boy..

Here's my two cents. Well 3 cents..

Play in tune
Play on Pitch
Play in tune
Play on pitch
play when told
add to the tune
keep mouth shut
play in tune
play on pitch
play the steel you bring
new strings is not an option
professional attitude
don't talk politics
don't talk at all unless spoken to
be neat and clean
be organized, act organized
Be ready quickly..
Be ready when they are ready for you
Say thank you at the end

half of the session will be your ability to understand what it is they are requesting you to do before doing it.

1/4 of it will be your ability to actually play ( they are already expecting that )

the last 1/4 is your abilty to get it done quickly, this means knowing your gear, being warmed up , not nervous..etc...

I have only done a very few sessions. One after all was said and done was a very short delayed timing 4 bar slide up to a chord here and there in the tune.

Most of the others involved playing very laid back simple chords behind the vocalists. All were demo's for the vocalists and clearly not Steel Guitar demo's...

others ..well..they called Paul Franklin instead...

I wonder why that was..

tp

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 6 Apr 2003 7:40 am

Merci le monde (all of you)for the nice words above.
I will add ALMOST new strings... new strings rarely stay in tune.

I generally don't care what equipment you play or play through as long as it is versatile.
Sure a Tele or a Strat always sounds like themselves, but different and more versatile in different amps. Just get a great sound and you will work. Maybe not every gig that comes down the pike, but at least the ones you fit into well.

I haven't played steel through a Line 6 tube dual amp, but for a guitarist in a session I hope he comes with that. Should be wonderful at reasonable studio volumes for PSG also.

I am a song writer, and that means you must have some idea of how words work...
sometimes I do.. some times I don't!

But I do know Paul Franklin always works!![This message was edited by David L. Donald on 06 April 2003 at 08:46 AM.]

Damir Besic · Post by **Damir Besic** » 6 Apr 2003 11:51 am

Last week I had a session and it kills me that all those new songwriters think that song will be better if they put more chords in it.Those 3 songs had all the possible chord changes you can imagine.I got to the session at 8 pm and those two guys were still laying down the vocals, since 8 am.It took them the whole day to record a vocal on the three of their own songs.If they can`t sing the songs they write why do I have to get it on the first try??I couldn`t.It took me 1 1/2 to be done with that mess.Producer said it worked out fine,I didn`t hear the final product yet and I`m not sure I want to anyway.Give me some good ole Buck Owens music and forget all that "minor" crap.

Frustrated yours DB

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 6 Apr 2003 1:35 pm

What's a "Producer"?

Damir Besic · Post by **Damir Besic** » 6 Apr 2003 1:53 pm

Tim Mcgraw--->

[This message was edited by Damir Besic on 06 April 2003 at 02:56 PM.]

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 6 Apr 2003 3:00 pm

What's a "Producer"?
Some one who get something done.

A song writer is another animal entirely!

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 6 Apr 2003 3:23 pm

Well, I ask because, at I guess my "bush league" level I have trouble distinguishing beween who it actually is that is "calling the shots". It seems to be the person that "tells me what, and when to play", or sometimes the person that wants me to cover up my pedal rack with a blanket.

I suppose the ultimacy of this is whose name is on the check I get. Usually it's a woman. Sometimes "the girlfriend".... Usually too, I have them make it out to my wife.

Hmm....

"Never Mind.." -Gilda Radner-

EJL

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 6 Apr 2003 4:09 pm

Well as I see it as there are three types of "Producer"

a) The executive producer who deals with money schedualing and getting the studio and lable ducks in a row for the sessions. Often times a manager of mulitple bands also. And usually taking a hefty cut too.

b) the hands on engineer producer, often a good musician, who get's the acts sounds on media the way they want it... and sometimes they way they want it before they realise that's what they really wanted.
A fine balancing act between studio technical demands, artist imagination, or lack of said imagination, and the possibilities really available for the session. David Foster is a good example

c) the untechnical, but hands on producer leading a (hopefuly) talented, but unorganised or occasionally confused "artist" from song to finished recording and dealing with band dynamics phsycology etc. Often a non musician cat with good ears and the gift of gab.
Most anyone who produced the Beach Boys.

These last are often the bain of engineers. But some are great to work with, intuative and politically astute.

Drew Howard · Post by **Drew Howard** » 6 Apr 2003 4:58 pm

I do a half-dozen sessions a year. I am NOT a genius player. I've worked in lots of local studios as a guitarist, they know I pick some steel, so I get some calls.

The demos/masters I play on are, by and large, cookie-cutter arrangements. The "producer" is looking for some licks and ambience to make the tunes "country", in as little time as possible.

In most situations I set up, jam a mic in front of the amp, get handed a chart and off we go. I like to record everything, from the first note on. I get no practice runs unless there is a unison or harmony part. So we record once through and then start over to clean it the track. If the songs are masters, and the budget is bigger, I'll get a demo in the mail to practice from.

Music by the pound!

cheers,
Drew Howard

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www.newslinkassociates.com
www.drewhoward.com

John Macy · Post by **John Macy** » 6 Apr 2003 7:43 pm

To quote the legendary producer John Boylan, "the producer is always, or at least usually, partially right..."

chas smith · Post by **chas smith** » 6 Apr 2003 8:01 pm

To reinforce what the Bove said, and I'm in LA also, all they care about is what gets on the tape/hard drive, was I easy to work with and did they get what they wanted or a reasonable facsimile, they could care less about what I did it with, although they do like to look at the guitar and marvel at its complexity.

I have trouble distinguishing beween who it actually is that is "calling the shots".

You had it right, the name on the bottom of the check....

Reggie Duncan · Post by **Reggie Duncan** » 7 Apr 2003 9:47 pm

1/4 of it is knowing how to play.
The other half is knowing what to play.

That's what Yogi would say!