Angled Front Mount Fretboard

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 30 Mar 2003 7:50 am

I cannot overstress the unlimited potential that the front mounted fretboard is capable of delivering to whomever. beginners, or top pros, no matter: all would realize the delight of visualizing the nose of the bar, as it appears to touch the desired fret, and always with a clear visible selection of proper bar placement. I'm at the present, contemplating placing the fretboard, which is approximately 1/3 the width of a standard size board, further to the front, as it presents no problems, even inches away from the picking area above the strings. The additional spacing will give the player the liberty of palm blocking, and full chordal brushings.

I have felt the full impact of a lack of interest within circles of bona fide musicians. I can only say that this "idea" originated here in my home, and it's a permanent fixture now, and will always be featured on my steel guitar.

Bill H.

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 30 Mar 2003 9:39 am

Bill, I suggest you bring the guitar to St Louis and Dallas and set up a booth and let people see the invention and try it for themselves. People need to experience thing like this firsthand. Maybe your invention(s) will catch on, maybe not. But talking about them on the forum isn't going to convince anybody. Even pictures won't do it.

I saw pictures of wrist levers. and I had read about them, but I wasn't interested till I tried one out, and as soon as I did, I wanted one and eventually had them installed on both guitars.

It was the experience of playing with one that convinced me, not the pictures, not what I read.

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 30 Mar 2003 10:17 am

What are you looking for, from us? Do you have a completed product you want to sell, do you want some other players to try it out? I saw the picture last time around and like the idea, but what do you want? If you can bring it in at a reasonable cost I will buy one (Carter single neck, 24" scale).

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 30 Mar 2003 10:49 am

How about a matching one on the back, so that the player can also line up the heel of the bar to keep the bar straight?

John Cox · Post by **John Cox** » 30 Mar 2003 11:26 am

How about a lighted one for dark stages?

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 30 Mar 2003 12:43 pm

Fellow steel guitarists,

Thank you for the great thoughts that you have shared on the Angled Fretboard thread. I'm very happy in knowing that virtually all of you are kind and sharing fellow musicians. I was surprised today when a renewed rush of energy allowed me to realize that there is no need for excessive bulk in the dimensions of the proposed fretboard. At the very present, I am about to scribe the frets on a fretboard length of 3/4 " x 3/4" angular aluminum, that 3/32" in thickness. It will be necessary to cut away a short tapered strip where the wider part of the "neck" gradually juts outward, (about 4"). I discovered that the compact fretboard should amaze those who put it to the test. The jewels can come later, after the efficacy has proven itself. The compact fretboard will rest on the outer edge of the E9th cabinet.

Bill H.

chas smith · Post by **chas smith** » 30 Mar 2003 1:31 pm

Why not just learn how to play the guitar as it is, a lot of other guys have proven that it's possible.....

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 30 Mar 2003 2:28 pm

S.G.F.M.,

It took very little time to test the trim angular aluminum fretboard that measures a mere 3/4 of an inch in height. I'm positively 100% satisfied with the surprising results.
I breezed through "Blue Spanish Eyes", and "The Other Woman" with relative ease. What an absolute joy to meet with success on a project that required a bit of sorting out the unknown minor details, such as size, and configuration.

Thanks John for the lighted aspect. It has never occurred to a club owner that visual contact is part of playing a steel guitar. The recesses of the angled aluminum, will house small connecting wires, should additional features be installed within the fretboard.

Bill H.

Stephen Gambrell · Post by **Stephen Gambrell** » 30 Mar 2003 5:32 pm

How 'bout some little monitor speakers, angled back toward yourself?

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 30 Mar 2003 5:40 pm

Bill, your "angled fretboard" is probably unnecessarily bulky and complex. To wit: if all you wnat to do is identify the fret's position based on a "point" at the tip of the bar, all we really need is an illuminated "dot" (a small L.E.D. will do fine) on the guitar approximately .675" from the first string.

In like fashion, a battery-operated laser-pointing device built into the bar could also be aligned to shine on a dowel mounted in a similar position to your "angled fretboard". If you're just trying to line up one point with another, "lines" or frets become inconsequential, and planting one "dot" squarely on another should be quite sufficient.

ebb · Post by **ebb** » 30 Mar 2003 6:26 pm

sounds like a chick magnet to me

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 31 Mar 2003 3:50 am

John,

You can see the reason for omitting "extras" from an advancement in steel guitar technology. I have visited several bands here in the Berkshires, who have a preference for a darkened hall. Imagine trying to enjoy watching the steel guitarist who is slightly visible, when the lead guitarist, or bass player takes one or two steps to the side. Chances are the steel guitarist would appreciate shedding some light on his/her valuable instrument. Someone pulled that darkened hall routine on one of my first "gigs". I returned the following night with a small desk lamp mounted at the tuning keys end of my steel. The preferred use of stage lighting in more recent times, has provided ample lighting to the players on stage. I removed the small lamp, but it's kept in a safe place, in the event that someone has a penchant to lower the lighting in some little cafe'.

Simplicity is the route that I'm following in the course of developing the angular metal "Fretboard". I would like to stress that any complicated electrical wizardry is not to be considered, and will be left to areas where it is more aptly applied. This creation is very understandable in its presentation. I became dismayed while playing the song called "The Other Women" some time ago. When I tried to "emulate" the B.E. part of the song, where he uses the 3rd and 5th backward glisses, I noticed the difficulty in locating the bar squarely over the 10th fret, due to the obliteration of the fret by hand and bar. From that experience, my thoughts kept returning to the possibility of overcoming that existing handicap. The front mounted 3/4" angular installation has more than satisfied the need for proper bar placement. All that remains is creative designing of the fretting configurations.

Bill H.

Richard Gonzales · Post by **Richard Gonzales** » 31 Mar 2003 5:35 am

Bill ! What is the problem you are trying to solve?? Many times we have an excellent solution looking for a problem.

John Cox · Post by **John Cox** » 31 Mar 2003 7:30 am

Bill,
Just trying to help,others have told me they
had this similar problem and I thought I'd
bring it up.I have built a cup (beer)holder
that clips to the leg of my guitar,after the
guys in my band saw this I ended up building moore,so my piont is any invention can be useful and I'll might come up with a light
of some type.

J.C.

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 31 Mar 2003 7:41 am

Possibly a gated stimulizer that would, in addition to Mr Hinson's suggestion, allow a mild electric shock to the "player" if the laser dot was not squarely on the dowel pin. Possibly applying more current to the left butt cheek if flat, and the right one if sharp. I suppose a glissando sensor and a vibrato window would eliminate un-needed discomfort when a guy ( or gal) was playing "Farewell Party". On the other hand...

A couple of my buddies and I were developing a "sphincternome" for application to the percussion section. Without giving away specifics for patent purposes it was basically a marriage betweeen a Sears Electric Fence "stimulation unit", a Seth Thomas metronome, rubber coated wires and a stainless steel washable electrode and toe-clamp ground. Stimulation free periods would be gained my playing the flamadiddles and paradiddles within a certain set tempo window.

"The World is Yours, and All that's in it."

We should all be glad that nobody discouraged Eli Whitney I suppose..

EJL

John Cox · Post by **John Cox** » 31 Mar 2003 7:54 am

Fine Eric,you come up with something.

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 31 Mar 2003 8:21 am

John,

Actually, Eric has "come up with something." He has proven that nothing is more thought provoking, than a person who is capable of evoking humorous outcries to others, by grabbing their attention, and leading them astray into a wilderness of unrelated scenarios. Our comedians have a very special place in everyday American life.

Bill H.

Bob Hayes · Post by **Bob Hayes** » 31 Mar 2003 9:29 am

I've known Bill Hankey for over 20 years as a freind and have Known of him for over 40. In reading some of the post on Bills' endevours..I get the feeling that some of you formites may think that Bill is a little excentric. Bill is devoted to the pedal steel guitar..and is always trying to solve some sort of problem..such as with the G# or 3rd string brealage. and I do remember the lamp.. I copied his lamp idea...and used it for a long while in dark venues. Bill introduced me to Herby Walace, Jimmy Crawford, and others great pickers through his record and tape collection..and now I know Herby personally and have the pleasure of enjoying him on CD and at jams/shows.
Bill played a Sho Bud..but also BUILT his own PSG using some of his inovations in the manufacture. I played it a little last year when I was visiting with him at his house. Bill is not trying to sell anything!!!!! he is mearly exchanging and providing information to the forum and fellow steelers. Every thing that bill has done( made and experimented with) has been done in his downstairs basement work shop..By hand. Bill and his lovely wife live in a small apartment in Pittsfield, Mass..and enjoy family, friends, and visitors.
He is rich in freindliness and his love of the Pedal Steel Guitar.
GrouchyVet

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 31 Mar 2003 12:48 pm

Thank you Bill, I am glad you realise my particular contribution. Perhaps it will provoke an effort towards simplicity. Things that are too "Rube Goldbergian" are often not recieved very well by the general playing public. I am reminded when I see my "Zinger" hanging on the wall. It's a combination of an autoharp and a jointed roller for the "drone" string with a fixed thumbpick. They never really took off. Why? I can only guess.

One suggestion of a line of thinking would be along the line of the leatherman Locking Blade System. It was so simple it defied understanding.

I guess as a positive critique, I know that the Visual aspect of Pedal Steel Guitar is perhaps second only to the sound. Anything that detracts from the "crowd" being able to"see" what you're doing detracts from the adulation of it.

Bill, John, et al. Here's a free million bucks or so. I'm not that materialistic:

Having strings that are simply "marked" would get "us" there. All you'd have to do is differentiate between the two major fretboard lengths, or have a system for marking them with a semi permanant fine tip marking pen. Just a simple cheeze grater looking plate with slots in it for a marking pen. It could be retouched once or more per night. What's wrong with that? Five bucks a plate and $1.99 per permanant marking pen.

(No lawsuits for laser "overspray" on the "crowd". No nervous off duty cops in the front row with red dots dancing on their chests..)

There. Problem solved. Invention Created.

Black Light pen and bulb for night work. Margin for error? A lot less than the "aiming" at a line off the side of the fretboard.

John: I'm working on it. Defending myself, my life, or what's left of my playing ability would only make them all worse. (Before I learned to type proficiently, I used to look at each new hundred page cyber-battle as a fresh challenge. I think 60wpm is enough.)

When your stack of money runs out from the "Eric String Marking System", let me know. I'll get you going again. I got a million of 'em..

Now, Where did I put that electric fence unit.....

The World is yall's....

EJL

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 31 Mar 2003 2:03 pm

I would have to try one first before I could either mount one permanently or make fun of the idea.

chas smith · Post by **chas smith** » 31 Mar 2003 3:21 pm

OK<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by chas smith on 01 April 2003 at 10:08 AM.]</p></FONT>

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 31 Mar 2003 7:16 pm

Charles,

It is my hope that you would reconsider what appears to be inappropriate input, and rethink the terminology on the morrow. Thank you for your consideration.

Bill H.

Bill Crook · Post by **Bill Crook** » 1 Apr 2003 6:18 am

Anything loaded with a laser light is an open invite to a law-suit !!!

I don't care how careful you attempt to be with it, someone will manage to get hit by it.....

If you insist on needing a light source for the PSG,A Mixer-board lamp on a gooseneck shaft is the way to go. Power it from a 6 volt wall-wart,and use a wire-wound "pot" to adjust the brightness of said lamp. Beings that most amps now-a-days has a a.c. recepticle for other devices,I find that useing wall-warts really isn't a major problem to-day.

If anyone is interested as to my set-up,I can e-mail photos of it to you.

The set-up consist of a mixerboard light,a box having the wire-wound "pot" to control the brightness of the lamp,with a L.E.D. to let the operator know that the unit is powered up, that is velcroed to the right-end of the the PSG. (This can be used on either end of the PSG,all depends upon your preference)

Again....... DO NOT USE A LASER LIGHT !!!!

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 1 Apr 2003 7:13 am

Chas, your music activated vibrator reminds me of an experiment some psychologists did years ago. They developed a kind of giant diaper that you strapped around your crotch. It vibrated according to music fed into it. They tried different instruments and found that tenor sax was the most stimulating. I think your vibrator, or two of them in some cases, could be built into that device and greatly improve it.

Seriously, Bill I would like to have a 45 degree angle fret marker made of clear plastic. You could attach it to the neck with velcro strips. I don't see a need for a laser pointer. We don't need one for the current frets under the strings, why should we need one for a marker in front of the strings. The main advantage of your idea is to get the markers out from under the bar hand so they can be seen. As for lighting, why not put a light at one (or both) ends of the clear plastic so that it is channeled down the length and caught by the fret markers.

Michael Holland · Post by **Michael Holland** » 1 Apr 2003 10:47 am

Why am I the only one who gets this? Don't answer that!.......

Seriously, where is your 'line of sight' when playing an instrument with a bar? It's the fretboard - 100%. I've read all the posts where guys say "I position my bar by ear". I don't buy it. You can't place your bar in the vicinity and then fudge up or down as needed unless you play only whole and half notes (flat or sharp until intoned). You must place the bar directly over and exactly parallel to the fret marker beneath.

Here's the problem. I can't see through my metal bar and big, fat fingers, so I have to look at the destination fret as the bar moves into position, then, if that position is held, at the adjacent frets as the bar is positioned (compensating for the parallax of course), then immediately on to the destination fret where my bar is going to end up on the next note, which will, in turn, be obscured on the arrival of the bar (thanks, Bill, you've been a great inspiration verbosilizationally

. Seems a no brainer to me that it would be great if the fret marker could be visible at the same time the bar is positioned over it.