Steel Made of Walnut- - - - Your openions pleas

Eddie Malray · Post by **Eddie Malray** » 11 Mar 2003 3:39 pm

Hello Everyone: I have some walnut lumber that is about 50 years old. I'm thinking about building a D-10 out of it--necks an all. I know little about wood characteristics so I thought some of you might. I figured if you can make one that sounds good out of carbon fiber or aluminum, walnut would work also. It would be a natural walnut finish with inlays. I think it would look good anyway and I could always use it for a lamp table. Looking forward to your replies.-------Eddie

Fred Einspruch · Post by **Fred Einspruch** » 11 Mar 2003 3:48 pm

Just my observation,
They apparently do not make guitars out of walnut, not acoustic 6 strings, or electric six strings or apparently PSGs. There is probably a reason for this. Apparently Oak is not used either, don't know why, but my guess is that these woods just don't sound good.
Regards,Fred

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 11 Mar 2003 6:24 pm

While I've never built pedal steels, I do know a good deal about wood. Walnut is used in a wide variety of musical instruments, for everything from zithers and dulcimers, to guitar necks, bodies, and even flutes. The reason they don't use walnut more often is probably because it's more expensive than maple or ash, and most really fine walnut goes into making furniture and veneers. I think that some old, virgin-timber walnut would probably make a great steel. Not as dense as maple, but a little more so than ash, it's very similar to maple as far as being "workable", and finishes really nice, but it's sawdust can be irritating to some people.

I think the key here is that you said this wood's over 50 years old. That's definitely in your favor. Many people don't realize that the wood you buy today is a far cry from the same wood that was available 50-100 years ago. Recently, I pulled some window casings out of my family home (which was built in 1925). The wood was ponderosa pine, and a 3" piece of the wood had almost 75 year's of growth rings! That told me that the tree that piece of wood came from was probably 300-500 years old. Virgin timber from dense forests was still available 50-75 years ago, but it's very rare and expensive nowadays.

Andy Alford · Post by **Andy Alford** » 11 Mar 2003 6:51 pm

I have a single 12 that Bob Simmons built out of walnut and maple.It has a lot of sustain and looks really fine.I like walnut for a fine choice in pedal steels.It sounds like your on to something grand.

Chris Bauer · Post by **Chris Bauer** » 11 Mar 2003 8:13 pm

Isn't Gene Wooten's main reso made out of walnut? If so, there's no denying that walnut can make a great sounding instrument!

Roxie Klaus · Post by **Roxie Klaus** » 11 Mar 2003 10:25 pm

I think walnut might be a good choice. Check out this link: http://electricguitar.50megs.com/korina.htm [This message was edited by Roxie Klaus on 11 March 2003 at 10:27 PM.]

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 12 Mar 2003 3:42 am

I played a Dobro model 100 made from walnut, I think a 1934, with my NYC bluegrass band. We had 4 old ones to choose from. Man, that was a nice Dobro. I think that wood would make a real nice PSG.

Mike Marchelya · Post by **Mike Marchelya** » 12 Mar 2003 6:28 am

Many of today's custom bass guitars are made of walnut as were many pre-war Epiphone archtops ($$$). Here's a link to a page discussing walnut for guitar construction. Note the comments regarding demand/pricing for other uses.
http://www.edromanguitars.com/wood/walnut.htm

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 12 Mar 2003 8:36 am

Didn't Fender make some walnut lap steels?

Stephen Gambrell · Post by **Stephen Gambrell** » 12 Mar 2003 11:38 am

Walnut makes a GREAT banjo resonator. Full, rich--It oughta sound killer! I guarantee it'll look good. When do we see the pictures?

Jody Carver · Post by **Jody Carver** » 12 Mar 2003 6:38 pm

Son Of A Gun, I tried posting a reply to this
thread and somehow I was not able to connect.
So I'll try again. However,you may have been better off without me.But here goes...

In reply to bOb's question as to did Fender
make some walnut non pedal steels. I would like to give my take on this question.

bob,Fender did in fact manufacture Dual Pro &Customs in walnut. The reasons they were discontinued were from Leo Fender's words to me,God Rest his soul.

Back in i953,the last of the walnut guitars were manufactured. The 1954 price list reflected the fact that the walnut guitars were discontinued. Since this was a quick decision on Leo's and Don Randall's behalf,rather than have a new price list printed,they simply blacked out the walnut guitars as an item in the Fender catalogue.
I have a copy of that price list from 1954.

The walnut guitars were a bit higher in price
and these are the reasons told to me by Leo and Don.

The ash,swamp ash and (oak when used) were much less costly than walnut. The walnut wood was a beautiful piece of wood and the procedure to manufacture these into a finished product took much time as the walnut had to be perfect as far as the grain,etc and they
were carefully chosen.

If in fact the walnut was not as perfect as Leo would accept,he would have these painted
in what is now called the "butterscotch" finish which covered any and all imperfections in the walnut guitars.

This proved to be costly and time consuming and since the demand for Fender non pedal guitars was increasing,Leo thought it best to
stop buying walnut wood. This was a waste of money to choose to paint a beautiful piece
of walnut with Sherwin Williams or DuPonte paints.

The small and slight imperfections in the walnut would be unacceptable to many players
back then as the price of the walnut guitars was higher in price. Not only from the manufacturing process but the increase in cost was passed along to the dealer and in turn that was passed on to the consumer.

The Telecaster and Esquire were selling well & people were starting associating that familiar blonde finish to a Fender.

The ash and swamp ash was easier to work with
there were few descrepencies regarding "knots" or irregular pattern wood
grain problems. If there were in fact,it was easier and less expensive to finish an ash and or swamp ash to the blonde finish.

This was the case and the reason the walnut wood was not used again.

People starting asking for the familiar Fender blonde and since Noel Boggs was playing a Triple neck Custom in Blonde back then,it made the blonde all the more popular.

When Noel played with Spade Cooley over the KTLA TV network, he was more times than not playing a blonde Custom triple neck guitar and that guitar is what put Fender on the road to sucess.

People would refer to Noel's guitar as being
the guitar with the "diamonds" on the front
making reference to the chrome diamond plates.

I asked Noel if there was in fact a difference in tone quality and he said with a
definite answer YES. He preffered the walnut
but Leo and Don explained the situation to Noel and Noel was obliging and went along with Leo and Don's decision. But since the blonde was much more popular and the effort
of doing the walnut guitars,the walnut guitars were then discontinued.My buddy Greg
Sullivan has an original Dual Pro and to my
ears there is a difference,,maybe not much but there is a definite difference. There is a sustain difference,at least to my ears.

Recently as of last week I e mailed Ricky Davis with the same question regarding the walnut wood as opposed to ash etc etc. Ricky
is much more qualified than I to answer that.

I beleive Ricky explained that the ash is more dense than the walnut and that since Leo
was planning on going into R&D with the Stringmasters,he thought that Leo's idea of letting the walnut go was a good idea.

Ricky felt that the Direct Strings Through Pickups were better sounding with the walnut
wood.but since the Stringmasters were coming
it would be better to use ash rather than the walnut.

I dont want to put words in Rickys mouth,but
it was my understanding that the walnut wood
accecentuated the sweeter tone of the "now called" "trapeziod pickups" and that the ash was better sounding with ash or swamp ash which was then manufactured on all Stringmasters.

I think it would be best for Ricky to explain
his reasons for choosing ash for the stringmasters rather than the walnut,,and take into consideration the fact that walnut was more expensive to buy and more time put in trying to choose that "perfect" piece of walnut where the beauty of the grain would stand out.

All Fender guitars which were made of ash were gone over with a fine tooth comb and if
there were any with a natural imperfection or a knot of any kind were then painted in a custom color such as Candy Apple Red,Sonic Blue,Fiesta Red, Foam Green Inca Silver etc etc. This process covered a less than perfect piece of ash and moreso no pun intended was a "cover up" and I dont mean that in a deragatory manner.

A couple of years ago I was in touch with one
of our Forum members Chris Bauer who is on this thread "Hi Chris"

.

Chris had a beauty of a Custom triple for sale and we both exchanged e mail re my purchasing his beautiful Custom. That guitar Chris had was indeed walnut stained or possibly a true walnut guitar I dont really know.

During the time Chris and myself were putting the deal together I found my original
Custom guitar which I used way back and explained to Chris that I was unable to buy
his beauty.

To this day I dont know whether or not Chris's guitar was indeed a true walnut.Maybe Chris can answer that. Perhaps if Ricky the master of wood see's this he can
join in and help out.

As I said before,,I would in no way put words into Rickys mouth,he knows more about wood than I'll ever know.

The facts I explained were the facts that were told to me by Leo Fender and Don Randall. To my ears there is NO SOUND like a Fender guitar ..walnut,ash or whatever.I like em all

Whew I never thought I could talk so much.

Sorry about that. Who was it that said I talk
too much?

Thank You

edited for spelling and remember I was only a salesman and not a guitar luthier

I'll discuss this with Mr.Fender when I see him again..
[This message was edited by Jody Carver on 12 March 2003 at 06:57 PM.]

Eddie Malray · Post by **Eddie Malray** » 12 Mar 2003 6:58 pm

Jody: That is a long story but I'm sure glad you posted it. Thats a lot of knowledge. I'm also very pleased tht the rest of you have responded. I have kicked this idea around for a long time but all your response has got me more intrested tha ever. This project is still in the thinking stage though. First I need to find a good cabinet builder. I'm sure I will go to some of the Professional builders for the mechanics. I've got a couple of 1980 Emmons pick ups I'm thinking about using. If any of you can recommend a good cabinet builder, let me know. If anyone has any input or recomendations, feel free to jump in. -------Eddie

Sam White · Post by **Sam White** » 12 Mar 2003 7:00 pm

I Just built one out of Popular and also the neck and it sound nice and mellow.
Sam White

Sam White · Post by **Sam White** » 12 Mar 2003 7:01 pm

Igoofed
Sam White[This message was edited by Samuel E. White on 12 March 2003 at 07:03 PM.]

Ricky Davis · Post by **Ricky Davis** » 13 Mar 2003 12:52 am

Yes pretty much like Jody said is what went on and what I believe is the difference.
Jody; Chris lucker's guitar IS Walnut.
..and to the poster here...I believe Walnut is a great choice...Or Poplar...or swamp Ash(good luck finding) or Hondurous Mahogany...or heck I'm probably the only one in the world with a steel made out of "Oak"(well australian silky oak; unlike any oak we know up here..ha)........and my guitar is one awesome sounding STeel.
Why here it is Now>

Ricky

Jody Carver · Post by **Jody Carver** » 13 Mar 2003 6:13 am

Ricky
Who is Chris Lucker? am I missing something?

I know who Chris Bauer is,,is that a "hip" expression?.(lucker)????

And to my information that guitar Chris had was sold.I may be wrong but thats what I heard from another Fender bug.

chas smith · Post by **chas smith** » 13 Mar 2003 11:32 am

A couple years ago I needed a bass guitar for a project I was working on. Since I don't play bass, it didn't have to be a "player's guitar", it just had to sound good. At the bass store, I was looking at all the quilted maple ones, when the sales person came over and offered to help. I told him what I was looking for and how I loved the look of the maple, but I didn't play. So he picked one up and started slapping around on it.

I said no, no ,no, I don't care what it does, I only care what it sounds like. Oh, I have one in the back you're going to like and he brought out a walnut one. Since I had my mind set on the maple look, we A/B-ed it against all the maple ones and I bought the walnut one.

Larry Chung · Post by **Larry Chung** » 13 Mar 2003 12:05 pm

Another vote for walnut as stringed instrument wood - I have a walnut b@njo - Gibson RB-4 - that sounds fantastic. The neck is curly walnut (lots of tiger stripes) and the resonator has lots of swirl in it. Although it's an all-acoustic instrument (and the steel is definitely not), the wood is incredibly stable, beautiful to look at, and, most importantly, has a sound that is different from mahogany and very different from maple - the most common b@njo woods. Bright, clear, crisp and musical! My friend's walnut Martin D and Greven D are the same in this respect, too!

Good luck - anyone built a pedal steel out of koa??? My favorite tone-wood! Aloha!

James Quackenbush · Post by **James Quackenbush** » 13 Mar 2003 12:53 pm

I have a flamed Walnut Larrivee OM-9 that there weren't too many made ...Good Walnut is hard to find....The tone is just what I was looking for....The tone is not as rich as Rosewood, and not as brite as Maple..It's sort of like a slightly briter sounding Mahogany.It projects better than Mahogany, and is very harmonic..The OM series if basically for finger picking, and it sounds GREAT !...My guess would be used on a pedal steel that it would have a nicely balanced tone, leaning toward the Maple sound, but not quite as brite...I think it would make a GREAT sounding pedal steel....Jim

Jeremy Steele · Post by **Jeremy Steele** » 13 Mar 2003 1:04 pm

I cut down a walnut tree many years ago in Vermont and made a bass out of some of the wood, using a Fender P Bass shape as a template. I think it sounds full and warm, but it's a HEAVY mofo.

Jody Carver · Post by **Jody Carver** » 13 Mar 2003 1:42 pm

Jeremy
I sold mofo's for years

Chas,,good choice.
[This message was edited by Jody Carver on 13 March 2003 at 01:44 PM.]

Post by **Joey Ace** » 13 Mar 2003 4:07 pm

I had a Fender Artist Banjo in the 70s.
I think the resonator was Walnut.
It sure was a pretty grain.

Ricky Davis · Post by **Ricky Davis** » 13 Mar 2003 10:17 pm

Sorry Jody I meant Chris "Bauer"....and was thinking of something else when I said "lucker"..ha
Ricky

Joe Kaufman · Post by **Joe Kaufman** » 14 Mar 2003 12:00 am

Back while I was in high school I built a lap steel out of black walnut. It was a fun experiment and though it was clumsy looking it sounds great to my ears and I learned alot. I have to second what Donny said about the sawdust being irritating. Good Luck Eddie.

Chandler Holt · Post by **Chandler Holt** » 14 Mar 2003 6:04 am

I think walnut is a great idea. Banjos are very commonly built from Walnut. Walnut seems to be a more stable wood than curly maple. It is expensive. I have noticed that on banjos there is a totally different sound than maple. It seems to be a little more round and deeper tone. Go for it.