Evaluating a Pedal Steel Purchase

Terry McBurney · Post by **Terry McBurney** » 12 Mar 2003 8:01 am

As a 2 month old beginning psg player, how do I evaluate purchasing a psg? New versus used? I attended the TSGA Jamboree and returned home very confused.

Thank you for your assistance and courtesy.

John Cox · Post by **John Cox** » 12 Mar 2003 8:48 am

Terry,
Spend the money and get a new one,Ive rarely
ran across a used one that's a bargin.

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 12 Mar 2003 8:56 am

I can certainly equate. And I do not have any quick and conclusive answers for you. Since PSG's are soooo very subjective, one size (or style) "does NOT fit all".

The following are just suggestions, nothing more:

1. If you are serious about learning to play the pedal steel, don't buy cheap because you are a beginner. This is a big mistake and usually results in wasted money. I know of a relatively inexpensive guitar that I personally think is a piece of junk. So buyer beware.

2. Unless you are positive you are never going to progress to the C6th type sound, Do buy a D-10 by all means.

3. Get a minimum of 8 pedals and 5 knee levers to begin with. Simply ask the builder you choose to build you the standard. He will know exactly what you need.

4. For goodness sake remove any vestige of glitter and gold when comparing different makes and models. Pretty looks doth NOT guarantee pretty sound. Let sound be the number one criteria when finalizing on your choice. A guitar with the sound one is striving for, can cover a multitude of other frustrations.

5. Second, it should "feel" good to you the instant you sit behind it and begin to play it. Original aggravations rarely go away. Keep this in mind always when deciding.

6. Check the original to used pricing on different makes and lean toward those that tend to retain their prices. Failure to do this often hits one side tha "hade" when they go to sell a guitar. It is NOT uncommon to lose gobs of money if you have to unload for whatever reason. I been there, done that!

7. Take "this is the best" with a grain of salt. Best for whom?

8. If at all possible, see if you can sit and play the guitar for a number of hours BEFORE you sign on the bottom line.

9. Check on the "after sale" experiences of players dealing with various builders. I can tell you for a fact, the gamut runs from superb to "I wanted to choke him to death" scenarios. This is sooo very important.

10. Finally, warranties and/or guarantees (don't forget shipping costs to and from) are very important considerations. Insist on "in writing" with every thing spelled out clearly.

A PSG is a big investment in most cases. Do your homework. Look, ask a million questions, then listen and study well. Be suprised how this will benefit you in the end.

Much good luck to you and may Jesus bless you in your quests,

carl

Terry McBurney · Post by **Terry McBurney** » 12 Mar 2003 9:36 am

Your "wisdom" is priceless!

I have a strong feeling that I am getting into a good clan of nice, honest, and straightforward people.

Many thanks.

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 12 Mar 2003 10:17 am

C you are always on the money.
Terry listen to the man. And yes this is a great bunch of people here. I am impressed.
I did buy used, but I had a good support structure before I decided.. and I went for the sound first. I wouldn't assume to be so lucky.

John Fabian · Post by **John Fabian** » 12 Mar 2003 1:21 pm

In addition to Carl's good advice, you might get some good tips here:
http://www.steelguitar.com/resource/howtobuy/howtobuy.htm

This guide is generic and applies to used as well as new pedal steel guitars.

John Fabian
www.steelguitar.com

Terry McBurney · Post by **Terry McBurney** » 12 Mar 2003 1:40 pm

Thank you David and John.

I'm learning.

Ron Randall · Post by **Ron Randall** » 12 Mar 2003 2:19 pm

Hello Terry,

All very good advice.
Take some time and read Maurice Anderson's article that explains pros and cons of the D10 and the Universal.
Click on LINKS (top of the page)then ARTICLES.

This has helped me evaluate which is best for me.

Ron

Paul King · Post by **Paul King** » 12 Mar 2003 8:38 pm

Terry, After playing for 24 years, if you can fit a new steel in your budget it would be to your advantage. I started out on a used guitar simply because I did not have the finances to buy a new one. With a new product comes new warranty something you probably would not get on a used guitar. I also went to the Texas show and it helped me decide which guitars I did not want. If you plan on playing for years to come you will not regret buying a new guitar. Remember, not everyone takes good care of their instruments. I have purchased 3 new steels and I prefer to have one that no one else has had their paws on. Buy what feels right to you. Every guitar has a different feel to them. Reece once said that your eyes and your ears are tied together and if you do not like the way a guitar looks you probably will not like the way it sounds. Good luck and enjoy what ever you buy...Paul

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 12 Mar 2003 11:41 pm

I haven't bought a new steel in years. One thing nice about used steels is that you can get a pro level steel for about half the money of a new one. If down the road you decide you want something else you can sell it without losing much money. Some used guitars are going up in value as a matter of fact.

here is a nice link;
www.angelfire.com/ny/lightsound/startup.html

E me if you want.

Bob

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 13 Mar 2003 1:56 am

You can consider a used steel from a reputable company that might have taken it in as a trade towards one of their new models. They often are listed as refurbished on the websites and offer a warrenty of sorts on them.

You can find out who is a trusted steel seller by asking on the forum too, mebe asking for the responses as private e-mail, so people can be a bit more harsh if they feel like it, with out social repercussions. And then take that with a grain of salt...

There are a number of steel specialty shops that are held in high esteem by forumites too.
You might get a mark up from what they paid of course, but likely worth it becasue the steel was checked out before resale. The good ones want to keep their good reputations.

Chandler Holt · Post by **Chandler Holt** » 13 Mar 2003 7:10 am

Terry,
I was in your same position only a couple of months ago. I had been playing a buddy's Sho-Bud Maverick. I decided I truly loved this instrument & wanted to play it for a long time to come. This decision lead me down a long road of looking & listening to a lot of different advice.

I looked at new & used guitars from almost every major manufacturer. I was close to buying a couple of other guitars b/f I made my final decision. I feel I made a great decison on my steel. I have previously bought 2 other expensive banjos that were great purchases for myself.

I recommend talking to Bobbe Seymour @ Steel Guitar Nashville. He has a lot of different product to offer. Bobbe will spend time with you & is very knowledgable. He is an incredible player!! His used steels will be more expensive than buying from people on the forum or ebay. But, you get a steel that has been reconditioned. There will be no worn parts etc. If you have any problems he can be called in to help. In my opinion you can not put a $ value on that. I have bought "the deal of a lifetime" before & it is more trouble than I ever imagined.

I did not buy my guitar from Bobbe though. I bought a Mullen from a forum member. I am very happy with this purchase b/c I was able to check the seller out through other forum members. These people verified this guitar was in great shape & that the seller is an honest fella. Also, I called Mullen & they said they could take care of anything that needed fixing.
I held off from the initail temtation of 2 other guitars and got exactly what "I" wanted: A laquer D-10 Mullen that is absolutely in perfect shape and looks beautiful!!

Good Luck!

Don't settle for something that doesn't make you smile ear to ear!

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 13 Mar 2003 12:05 pm

One of the dealers I had in mind, but that I didn't mention, in an earlier post was Bobbe Seymour. (not trying to do a specific plug at the time).
But since him name has now come up... My friend bought a PSG from him long distance, and when I was looking for one he recomended Bobbe very highly as a dealer of quality used steels. I got lucky before I contacted Bobbe, but I would have.

He also gives some great advice here in the forum.[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 13 March 2003 at 12:07 PM.]

Chandler Holt · Post by **Chandler Holt** » 13 Mar 2003 12:10 pm

I would also like to say that even though I did not buy my steel from Bobbe, I bought every accessory I could think of from him. His service had a value to me. Hopefully I can repay him down the road by buying a steel from him.
Also, anybody that is in steel guitar sales will treat you similar. It is such a niche business that everybody understands it takes a lot of info to match a buyer up with what they really want & need.

James Quackenbush · Post by **James Quackenbush** » 13 Mar 2003 1:59 pm

Terry,
I too am a learning steeler...I wish I could afford a new steel, but that hasn't been the case....The resale value on most pedal steels is not really that good...What I found is that I could buy a really nice used steel that I could not have afforded new, and have been all the better for it....When I go to sell it, I will be able to get my money back to buy another steel if I so choose...Ask a million questions, and if you buy from a company, ask for a trial period...If the steel is as good as they say it is, then you should have no problems getting the trial period..Buying from a private individual, you will basically have to ask a lot of questions and trust who you're dealing with to give you honest answers..Like many others have said, try and play the steel that you're buying in person..It's not always that easy, but try just the same..I feel that when I feel confident to sit in with a band and sound good, then I can justify buying a new steel...I'm getting there, and wish my finances would follow !!....Good Luck....Jim

Terry McBurney · Post by **Terry McBurney** » 13 Mar 2003 6:19 pm

Jim...giving up golf to pursue this long standing dream. Can't do both!

Kenny Foy · Post by **Kenny Foy** » 13 Mar 2003 8:02 pm

Terry, You would have give up golf anyways so don't feel bad about that. If you really want to pursue PSG you'll soon see it isa disease that will consume you. The grass will need mowing and fences will need mending and psg will come before a thousand other things that need to be done. I can't wait to get home from work just to make some racket on the geetar. As a beginner I am findin all this out BUT I wish I'd have started 25 years ago. I LOVE IT. Kenny Ray

Rick McDuffie · Post by **Rick McDuffie** » 13 Mar 2003 8:40 pm

Unless you ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY know that you're going to stick with it, buying a used guitar is the way to go. If you decide to opt out in 6 months, you'll be able to sell the guitar for what you put into it. If you buy a new guitar, be prepared to take a beating on it when you come to resale. I've bought 2 Sho-Buds off eBay and a Marlen from a Forum member, and am extremely happy with all three of them (although the Buds required some TLC, even that was a pleasure). Ricky Davis, a Forum member from Texas (Dale Watson's steel player), works on older steels (especially Sho-Buds) and will make them look and play like new for around $250. If you can pick up a good 3 and 3 single-neck for $1,000 and have it cleaned, polished and adjusted for another $250, you'll have hit a "home run". Read all you can on the Forum and in other places before you buy- get informed. The last thing I'd say to you is that this is a quest... be prepared to buy 2 or 3 before you find "the one". You're not making a lifetime commitment here... get a used S10, don't tie up an arm and a leg, be prepared to replace it when you outgrow it- if you buy right, you'll be able to get 100% of your money back when you trade up. Only by playing, learning, comparing and working with steel guitars can you develop a feel for what will work for you. Best of luck to you, and I hope you enjoy all this as much as the rest of us![This message was edited by Rick McDuffie on 13 March 2003 at 08:42 PM.]

Stephen Gambrell · Post by **Stephen Gambrell** » 13 Mar 2003 9:26 pm

If there are any other steel players in your area, check with them. There's always a network of used guitars, amps, effects, whatever, and the steel community (around here, anyway)is glad to help a newbie. I got a GREAT deal on a LeGrande D-10, and I know I can get my money back out of it---but I ain't gonna sell it! Definitely, try to find a used steel, and a TEACHER! All the videos in the world won't do you as much good as an hour with a good steel player/teacher. And you will love the instrument, and when you want that new steel, you'll know how you want it set up, how many knees, etc.
And Bobbe Seymour will be a tremendous help, whether you buy from him or not.

Don McClellan · Post by **Don McClellan** » 14 Mar 2003 12:46 am

I did not read every reply but my advice would be to buy a used PSG and see if you really have enough interest to stick with it. Most guys who start, maybe 90%, do not last and they end up selling their steels. If you buy a new one you'll never get even close to what you paid for it. If you buy a used one you can sell it for about what you paid and then buy a new one if you're still with us after a year or so. One year is nothing. This is a life time journey. Good luck.

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 14 Mar 2003 3:09 am

Terry welcome to the world of crazy !

Don't be afraid to buy used, just think of the purchase as you would anything else that you would purchase used, like a car.

But new is good too....

IF you can see the Steel and sit behind it that would be a plus.

If you buy one from a Forum member odds are the Steel will be represented well . I would hate to be a member of this forum who tried to rip another member off...

IF you buy one from Bobbe, you will get a good Steel.

If you buy new, all of the dealers are reputable.

Ebay deals are ok, but there is risk.

I personally have purchased the following during the past year and a half.

EBAY MSA D12 8+4
it was very fine..sold it again on EBAY..too heavy

EBAY Sho Bud Professional D10 8+2
It was also very fine, Great tone...but the aggravation of adding more knee levers wasn't worth it.
Sold it locally

Forum Sale Carter D10 8+5
Excellent Guitar, excellent deal
Could not have been more pleased
But, after some time I decided to opt for more knee levers

Local Trade ( Joe Smith )
Carter D10 9+8
This is my only Steel and I am really happy with it. Plus Joe already taught it several licks so it was already trained.

I think C Dixon is right on the money with his free advice.

IF you have the funds for a new Steel and don't mind parting with them then new is the answer.

The used market, just like cars, offers Professional Steels with extended knee lever configurations for a fraction of the new cost.

I too would recommend a D10 with a minimum of 8+5, or more. Reason being is that if you decide to trade up or change guitars you want to be where the market is, a Steel with extended knee levers will be much more attractive than a steel with a minimum amount of levers. Would you buy a used car without air conditioning , CD and all that other stuff ? same principle applys.

Isn't this fun !

Oh yeh..get a Black one, they sound better..
everyone knows this .!!

Just kidding..

good luck

Let us know when you want to start talking about amps !

tp

George Crowder · Post by **George Crowder** » 14 Mar 2003 4:46 am

Terry,
Check with Billy Cooper's Music in Orange, VA. Billy and Wanda have many new and used steels in stock. These folks are knowledgeable, honest and great to deal with. The phone number is 540/854-5940 and their email address is coopersmusic@hotmail.com
I have purchased three steels from them and the after sale service and support are great.

J D Sauser · Post by **J D Sauser** » 15 Mar 2003 3:41 am

I believe that a beginner should buy a used instrument ONLY after having it check out by an uninterested advanced player (or two) of trust. In the US it should not be a problem to find somebody willing to help. If you don´t know anybody, check the online steelers directory ( http://www.onlinesteelers.com/ ) and don´t be shy to contact a few steelers in your region for assistance.
If you have time to wait, it may even be better to visit a convention in your region and make friends there and test some brands.

All that being said, if you can aford it, I'd go with Carl Dixon's advice and the info found in http://www.steelguitar.com/resource/howtobuy/howtobuy.htm .

... J-D.

J D Sauser · Post by **J D Sauser** » 15 Mar 2003 3:43 am

I believe that a beginner should buy a used instrument ONLY after having it check out by an uninterested advanced player (or two) of trust. In the US it should not be a problem to find somebody willing to help. If you don´t know anybody, check the online steelers directory ( http://www.onlinesteelers.com/ ) and don´t be shy to contact a few steelers in your region for assistance.
If you have time to wait, it may even be better to visit a convention in your region and make friends there and test some brands.

All that being said, if you can aford it, I'd go with Carl Dixon's advice and the info found in http://www.steelguitar.com/resource/howtobuy/howtobuy.htm .

... J-D.

Bill Moore · Post by **Bill Moore** » 15 Mar 2003 3:22 pm

Tony said:

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>If you buy one from a Forum member odds are the Steel will be represented well . I would hate to be a member of this forum who tried to rip another member off...

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If anyone whould care to hear the details of how I was ripped off by another forum member, send me an email.

------------------
Bill Moore...
my steel guitar web page