Locking Tunners

John Cox · Post by **John Cox** » 12 Mar 2003 9:02 am

Can someone tell me why the builders have not
grasp this concept yet?

Tom Olson · Post by **Tom Olson** » 12 Mar 2003 9:06 am

Actually, I've also been wondering why a locking nut has never caught on. There must be good reasons why neither locking tuners or locking nuts are used on PSG's -- isn't there?

Sam Minnitti · Post by **Sam Minnitti** » 12 Mar 2003 9:08 am

Probably because they are a pain in the butt to have to deal with.

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 12 Mar 2003 9:24 am

Mega dittos Sam

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 12 Mar 2003 10:50 am

My impression is that strings don't go out of tune because the tuners slip. They go out because of stretching and temperature changes. Playing them can stretch them and change their temperature. So just playing will cause them to go out even if you weld the tuner. So you need to be able to regularly tweak the tuning, and as they say above, this would be a pain with locking nuts.

Gino Iorfida · Post by **Gino Iorfida** » 12 Mar 2003 11:49 am

My experience with locking tuners/locking nuts on 6 string, and why I believe no one uses them on PSG.
1) Locking nuts are a pain, due to now you need a 'fine tune mechanism'.
2) Locking tuners don't let the strings slip, which is true, however, now your string leaves the hole of the tuner, in many cases at a very sharp angle in line toward the nut

#2 is one reason, I feel that they are not used on PSG, the demands on the strings being pulled, and stretched would be too great, and I believe a LOT of strings would be prematurely broken due to this-- whereas with the standard type tuner, enough wraps acts as a 'shock absorber' of a type to allow the string to take the abuse -- one of the causes of string breakage has been noted a) too close to the hole which can develop sharp edges and burrs, and b) not enough wraps to absorb shock. Granted, you COULD put extra wraps on with the locking tuners to overcome that, but rarely if ever do strings slip from the hole,it's the pulley effect of the extra wraps..

.. another thought is that the headstock area would have to be redesigned to ENSURE a straight line from nut to capstan on tuning machine

--- One idea that if I had the machine shop capabilities, that I would like to try.... a mixture of the keyed/and keyless technology on the same guitar-- in other words, use the 'keyless' type tuning mechanism, however, use the longer lenght's behind the nut area to retain the feel and tone of the keyed guitars--- in otherwords, you'd have the 'zero backlash' locking type tuning (stability, precision etc) advantage of the keyless, with the tone and feel aspects of the keyed

Jon Light · Post by **Jon Light** » 12 Mar 2003 12:40 pm

I've barked up this tree a bit----
http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum5/HTML/000025.html
http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum5/HTML/003723.html

chas smith · Post by **chas smith** » 12 Mar 2003 2:04 pm

I have string locks mounted on a pedestal for my 5 and 6 strings that stop the strings the same length as the 3rd string to the nut, on my Professional. Those are the strings that get pulled the most and they have the longest distance from the nut to the tuner. Both sides get stretched and both have to return to zero to stay in tune. By stopping them, I have less pedal travel and the guitar seems more responsive that it did before I installed them.

Michael Johnstone · Post by **Michael Johnstone** » 12 Mar 2003 3:06 pm

Some builders HAVE grasped the concept. It's called keyless. But seriously,to those who haven't considered a keyless design because it looks weird or it seem like it would be a hassle to change or tune strings,I would urge you to reconsider.It's the ultimate "locking tuner". I have both an Excel and a Sierra if you check out the Sierra tuning head you'll see just such a blending of the keyed and keyless concepts(same goes for the GFI). Now on the Excel you need a wrench to tune but you'll rarely have to reach for it.Mine's been damn near perfectly in tune ever since the last new set of strings settled in. -MJ-

jim milewski · Post by **jim milewski** » 12 Mar 2003 5:48 pm

I lock my strings right behind the rollers with fine tuners. The strings pass through "clamps" then to the Kluson tuners, the strings are brought up to near pitch, then locked, the fine tuners are between the lock and the rollers. This has made the guitar more stable, and reduced pedal travel quite a bit. I have this system on both my push / pull S12's. Hysteris is completely gone.

Tom Olson · Post by **Tom Olson** » 12 Mar 2003 10:06 pm

Jim, is this tuning apparatus of your design and contruction? I'm interested to hear a bit more details about it if you're so inclined -- thanks

Jim Smith · Post by **Jim Smith** » 13 Mar 2003 5:48 am

Jim, I'd like to see a picture of that. Could you either post it or email it to me?

Dan Dowd · Post by **Dan Dowd** » 13 Mar 2003 6:46 am

I have 2 keyless 12 strings. I would not want to go back to a keyed guitar because of the extra length (aprox 6inches). The allen wrench required to tune the guitar is part of the tunning wrench required to tune the changer mechanism. All that is required is to drill a hole in the knurled end of the George L tunning wrench and drive in a short piece of allen wrench. Works for me.

Mike Winfield · Post by **Mike Winfield** » 13 Mar 2003 2:41 pm

I have been having trouble keeping my Bud LDG in tune and I suspect the old Grover tuners. Stew-mac has the new Grover locking tuners which are 18:1 ratios that automatically lock the post without an external knob.Anyone had any experience with these tuners?
Mike Winfield