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Topic: Split Tuning |
James Taylor
From:
United Kingdom
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Posted 15 Mar 2013 8:35 am |
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What is the benefit of "split tuning"? James taylor  |
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Roger Rettig
From:
Naples, FL
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Posted 15 Mar 2013 9:13 am
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It allows a string to be raised a step then lowered half a step with a combination of pedal/knee lever (eg: raising string 5 on the A pedal and lowering it a half-step with a lever) and the resulting note (in that case a 'net' half-step raise) to be right in tune.
Most guitars won't achieve this without the necessary hardware installed.
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Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles, Martins, and a Gibson Super 400!
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 15 Mar 2013 9:19 am
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The ability to get a note that you don't have a pedal programmed to get. If you understand what split tuning is, you can see the benefit. On string 6 you lower the G# to F# and by pressing the B pedal at the same time you have the string lowered, it pulls the string up another half step to give you a G note. Most people do not lower the 6th to G, so this is a way to get it without having to have another pedal or knee lever added to the guitar. The problem arises that when you split the note and get the G note in tune, the F# will most likely be a bit flat. The extra rod on the lowering knee lever added to the raise finger will raise the flat F#up so you can tune it properly. There are also guitars tat use split tuners by way of set screws mounted in the rear of the changer housing. I am not 100% sure how those work as I have never had a guitar that had them.
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Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 55 years and still counting. |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 15 Mar 2013 9:29 am show pro splits?
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i've wondered if show pros have split tuning capabilities. i don't see any screws on the changer end.
it seems these days the split tuning option would be a requirement on any new modern guitar. lots of pros seem to like these steels, so what's the deal? |
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Jim Pitman
From:
Waterbury Ctr. VT 05677 USA
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Posted 15 Mar 2013 9:49 am
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My new "Infinity" S12U has the capability. The aluminum piece behind the changer pillow blocks is tapped and drilled to accept a no6 set screw. The set screw acts as a stop directly for the string finger when it is at its' maximum lower position. One uses it to adjust the 1/2 step lower applied by itself. One tunes the combo of the whole step raise and half step lower using the nylon nut on the end of the half step lower rod as you would normally. One also uses tunes the full step raise via its' nylon nut/rod as you would normally.
My Fessey has the feature too. My MSA and Zum also had the capability.
I'm not sure who came up with that little feature. I wouldn't use a combo without it.
I understand push/pull can't combine - a raise dominates.
Is there a way to do it otherwise on a PP? |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 15 Mar 2013 9:52 am
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Chris... I assume it is easier to use the "extra rod" method (which works just fine - I have 2 on my guitar) than to have to drill and tap the changer housing. Some may have to re-design their housing to allow the holes.
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Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 55 years and still counting. |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 15 Mar 2013 10:00 am
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| thanks richard. that's a simpler answer than jim telling us about all the stuff he has without answering my question. |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 15 Mar 2013 10:11 am
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I think Jim was answering my post where I said I wasn't 100% sure how the set screw method worked. He gave a good explanation.
Funny thing though, a few years ago, I ordered a new Williams. I had seen a lot of pics where they drilled the changer housing. I had 1 split on my guitar and assumed that I would have the holes in the changer housing, but it came with the extra rod method of getting the split.
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Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 55 years and still counting. |
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Earnest Bovine
From:
Los Angeles CA USA
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Posted 15 Mar 2013 10:33 am
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| On E9 neck it means I can play C natural on the B string. |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 15 Mar 2013 11:20 am
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| oh...sorry richard. i thought he just wanted us to know he had a fessy a zum an msa and an infinity. my bad! |
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Jim Pitman
From:
Waterbury Ctr. VT 05677 USA
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Posted 15 Mar 2013 11:49 am
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Sorry Chris. I started to reply to Richard's question then got interrupted. By the time I got back to it, you replied I bet but it wasn't visible on my screen. I know nothing about Sho Pros.
I would think there's nothing cheaper simpler, and more reliable than a tapped hole with a set screw in it. The problem is, modifying a guitar that wasn't built that way originally is a bigger job than adding the hardware Richard mentions. |
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Jim Pitman
From:
Waterbury Ctr. VT 05677 USA
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Posted 15 Mar 2013 11:50 am
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| ha! No I don't own all those guitars anymore. |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 15 Mar 2013 12:41 pm
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jim..i agree. when i got my old zum in 82 it had no splits. soon after, bruce sent the tapped end blocks which were a simple drop in exchange. they work great. i'm surprised every new steel hasn't had them employed, seeing the simplicity.
by the way...i'm only getting on you cause i'm jealous...i'd love to have a new infinity. how do you like it? |
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Brett Lanier
From:
Hermitage, TN
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Posted 15 Mar 2013 3:02 pm
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| When I had an all pull guitar I used those set screws to tune all the final lowers for a more solid stop. I feel like it helped on the Eb's. |
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Jim Pitman
From:
Waterbury Ctr. VT 05677 USA
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Posted 15 Mar 2013 3:11 pm
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I'm really liking it Chris. (kinda glad you asked).
Let me pontificate (like I do so often here on the forum , ie watch the color of the smoke coming out of my a..)javascript:emoticon(' ')
Between the lack of hysteresis, the minimal cabinet drop, and the temperature stability, it's like a tuning curtain has been lifted. If I'm out of tune now, it's certainly my fault and not the guitar's.
A couple of key features toward his end:
slightly larger diameter roller nuts with a really small diameter axle increases the mechanical advantage killing the hysteresis due to string not returning on the key head side. The roller bearing used for the changer finger contact may have something to do with it also.
The nut slots are graduated for no buzz when playing at the first few frets.
The pedal rack is very cleaver the way the pedals mount. You can change the pedal spacing easily, although it doesn't change up above so there's a limit on how far you want to go. The rack is a bit heavier than normal too. The pedals are shaped just the way I like them. The pedals have adjustable spring returns to remove the influence they might have on the fingers returning. I've had that problem before. You know the one that goes away when you flip the guitar over?
The knee levers have paddles mounted at an angle to match your leg angle - very comfortable to play though aesthetically funny looking - reminds me of a Picaso painting "woman (pedal steel) descending stairs" if you get my drift. See below.
There's provision for raise helper springs and I use a few.
The axle and associated cranks are mounted such to maximize mechanical advantage with straight pull linkage.
You add all this up and the guitar plays like butter. I've even added a few more pulls to get extended E9 without incurring to much additional pedal pressure.
The sound is great too - lotso sustain with good note separation.
It's black!
I owned a PP Emmons once. The infinity has that solid feel/growl whereby you can dig in and attack without it becoming shrill.
One interesting thing is the string height off from the neck is quite high. Took some getting used to but I'm wondering if this is favorable for the tone.
It has a locking Eb lever - something I've never had.
The Red Dirt case wonderful with it's wheels. Guitar in case weighs somewhere around 50lbs.
At first the price seemed high for a single neck. I paid what Frank advertises - but am concluding it's worth it so far.
I play out with it tonight. Well see about that live tone.
Here's a photo. Please excuse the posing, pontificating, and thread robbing.
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 15 Mar 2013 3:39 pm
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nice!! thanks for the run down. i've been very curious about these. in my mind, these would be one of the main steels to consider for myself were i to fall into a pile of money.
i'm still jealous. |
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