New Player - Tuning Troubles

Mike Squires · Post by **Mike Squires** » 13 Mar 2013 3:02 pm

I have a question concerning fixing a tuning issue. I purchased a older MCI SD-10 (I am a new player -- 3 months). The guitar is not in excellent shape but overall in good shape. I made a few adjustments (pedal rod lengths, etc) and had it playing and tuning as it should. It has held tuning very well up until recently. I packed the guitar in its case as I transferred to a new location. Now the 5th and 10th strings won't tune properly with the pedals. When I tune to B open and then depress #1 pedal to raise to C#, its flat. So I fine tune with the pedal adjusters (wrong term I know) and it changes the open tuning the same amount that I adjusted w/ pedal down to get to the C#. -- Hope it makes sense. Springs, rods, etc. look okay.

It does this on both strings. It was fine until I unpacked it and set it up in my new location. Thanks for any advice. -- I'm sure it is something ridiculously obvious!

Ray Anderson · Post by **Ray Anderson** » 13 Mar 2013 4:26 pm

Could you maybe have one of the pedal rods in the wrong place ( on the wrong peddle). Rod adjustment may be too long or short for the peddle stop.????

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 13 Mar 2013 5:48 pm

It sounds like overtuning. That just means you tightened the nylon nuts too far.
Back the nut off to where it doesn't move the string AT ALL, even when mashing the pedal.
Now tune the B with the pedal up.
Then mash the pedal and tune the C#.
Things SHOULD work just fine now

Larry Baker · Post by **Larry Baker** » 14 Mar 2013 5:02 am

Mike, where are you locatd in Missouri? Larry

Greg Cutshaw · Post by **Greg Cutshaw** » 14 Mar 2013 5:32 am

You need to increase the pedal travel, then re-adjust the changer tuners to allow for a longer pull at the changer.

Greg

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 14 Mar 2013 6:10 am

If you're in KCMO, I could look at it a weekday evening (I work out of a terminal in Lenexa). Greg probably has a point, as well

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 14 Mar 2013 11:51 am

Could you maybe have one of the pedal rods in the wrong place ( on the wrong peddle). Rod adjustment may be too long or short for the peddle stop.????

This shouldn't have anything to do with tuning problems. The amount of pull that happens at the changer is governed by the amount of travel the cross shaft makes before it hits a hard stop under the guitar, and the length of the pull rod (adjusted by turning the nylon tuner to lengthen or shorten the rod) under the guitar that pulls the changer finger. The length of the pedal rod (the one from the pedal to the cross shaft connection) doesn't affect how far the shaft will turn or how far the pull rods will pull.

Sounds like over tuning to me too.

Greg Cutshaw · Post by **Greg Cutshaw** » 14 Mar 2013 12:30 pm

Unless something is hung up (very possible during travel or setup), when the nylon tuner starts moving the changer's open tuning, more pedal travel/slack has to be added to the system to allow the changer to have more travel and reacha bit higher pitch.

Greg

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 14 Mar 2013 12:47 pm

it'll be interesting to hear the final outcome of this. since it worked fine before packing it up, it seems to me that you could have done 'something' wrong along the way..maybe setting it back up. is there only 'one' choice of where the pedal rod can hook up to the cross rod under the guitar?

could a pull rod have gotten out of position slightly on the bellcrank....and then become exacerbated by adjusting the pull when something wasn't seated correctly?

it's going to be an easy fix...have someone familiar with steel guitars take a quick look at it. it's probably obvious and no big deal, once corrected.

Ray Anderson · Post by **Ray Anderson** » 14 Mar 2013 1:30 pm

That was kinda' the way I wanted to say it chris. On my Sho-Bud it has different holes closer or farther from the shaft and setting it back up after a tear down I have done this despicable thing, so I took a black marker and marked the hole location and have had no more problems of that nature. Just couldn't get the words to line up.

BTW welcome back.

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 14 Mar 2013 1:43 pm

i hear you ray...sometimes 'talking' steel is more confusing than 'playing' steel...ha ha i knew what you were getting at!

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 14 Mar 2013 2:12 pm

Yeah, welcome back Chris.

The thing about the holes that the pedal rods hook into, there shouldn't be any change in the pull train from the cross shaft to the changer when switching the holes on the lever that the pedal rod hooks into. My experience with multi hole cross shaft lever was, that switching the holes gave you a longer or shorter (harder and softer) pedal travel. It in no way affected the tuning on the pedals.

Also check to make sure all the bell cranks and other parts under the guitar are not loose.

o I fine tune with the pedal adjusters (wrong term I know) and it changes the open tuning the same amount that I adjusted w/ pedal down to get to the C#.

This one line is what makes me tend to agree with the others that it sounds like "over tuning". Sounds like no slack in the system and the tuners are right up against the fingers when he is tuning at the keyhead.

Pete Burak · Post by **Pete Burak** » 14 Mar 2013 2:43 pm

Since you adjusted the pedal rod length, then moved the steel, then had the problem...
Is carpet involved???
Sometimes the pedal will hit the carpet and not go all the way down, then you overtune at the end plate, and that in turn causes the open note to go sharp.

Mike Squires · Post by **Mike Squires** » 14 Mar 2013 3:50 pm

Thanks for the help. I backed the nylon nuts off, re-tuned 5 & 10, depressed the pedal and tuned to C# and it worked, so all is well again. I would have never figured that one out. Still unsure why it seemed to happen overnight, but oh well....Thanks again for the help. The forum is great place.

Mike Squires · Post by **Mike Squires** » 14 Mar 2013 3:51 pm

Larry - I just moved to Springfield.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 15 Mar 2013 6:10 am

One little trick you can use is to always compare the string that you're adjusting the tuning nuts on to one of the adjacent strings. In other words, when tuning the nut, repeatedly release the pedal or lever on the string you're tuning to see if the open note still sounds "in" with the adjacent string. Don't just focus on the string you're tuning, but also note how it sounds in releation to the other strings.

So, you have the 5th and 6th strings where they sound good together, open. As you're adjusting the tuning nut on the 5th, repeatedly release the pedal to see if the 5th and 6th still sound good together. If you ever release the pedal and the 5th and 6th now sound "out", then you've over-tightened (overtuned) the 5th string tuning nut.

This is the biggest problem that beginning players have in tuning the instrument.

Mike Squires · Post by **Mike Squires** » 15 Mar 2013 4:56 pm

Thanks to everyone for helping me. Love the steel and definitely need all the help I can get right now.

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New Player - Tuning Troubles

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