Question about Emmons Fat Back P/P

Ole Dantoft · Post by **Ole Dantoft** » 21 Sep 2001 8:01 am

Jody,
Good one

BTW I presently have two fatbacks in the house, and I love both of them !!

Ole

P.S. : Ooohhh my God, don't ever let my wife see this ![This message was edited by Ole Dantoft on 21 September 2001 at 09:03 AM.]

Gene Jones · Post by **Gene Jones** » 21 Sep 2001 11:38 am

* [This message was edited by Gene Jones on 02 May 2002 at 01:53 PM.]

Jim Bob Sedgwick · Post by **Jim Bob Sedgwick** » 21 Sep 2001 5:18 pm

Gene: My wife still puts fatback and Hamhocks in the pinto beans, navy beans, etc. Am I showing my age:

BTW I have a "fatback" Williams. Great sounding axe.

Gene Jones · Post by **Gene Jones** » 22 Sep 2001 3:23 am

* ![This message was edited by Gene Jones on 02 May 2002 at 01:53 PM.]

Jody Carver · Post by **Jody Carver** » 22 Feb 2003 11:59 am

For those of you who missed all the fun of times gone by,here is another for you.

I enjoy old movies and nostaglia and I think you will enjoy this as well.

Thanks to bOb for keeping these in the"archives" wow did I say all that??

This is for new members and those who may have missed the "good times".

It makes me feel bad when I see members who are no longer with us,but at least we have these to remember them by.

Look at all the trouble I saved you by finding these.

Jackie Anderson · Post by **Jackie Anderson** » 23 Feb 2003 7:43 am

Jody, we all enjoy it when you and Bobbe chew the fat.

Bobbe, if you are familiar with the late King Curtis' recipe for "Memphis Soul Stew," I believe he started with a pound of fat back drums. Do they make anything like that it Nashville?

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 23 Feb 2003 10:09 am

In late '69, I bought a new Emmons P/P "fullback" with 9 and 2. It had two strips like Bobbe talked about. They ran from the front to the rear aprons and were of course black flocked.

It was obvious what these metal straps were for. Wide arpons on a PSG hanging in mid air have nothing to make them rigid. These metal straps was THE answer for that. Pulling strings on a PSG, creates a lot of stress on the cabinet and aprons play a role here. So the straps are important IMO.

8 years later, I gutted the guitar; corrected some factory "goofs"; and tried to install 9 more knee levers; and one more pedal. Much to my consternation, the metal staps got in the way of several of the new knee levers.

Since I rarely follow the policy of "live for the moment", I walked away from the partially assembled guitar and studied it for days and days, trying to figure away to "have my cake and eat it too!". In a word, "them straps were on there, and they are going to STAY there unless there is NO way around it!"

Months went by. I was about ready to do away with the straps, rationlizing "most other make guitars had never used them". Then has happened sooo much in my life, Jesus guided me to the Emmons booth at ISGC, and they had newer Emmons (of course) and they had the rear apron cut away. BUT they had a single strap going from front to back. But it was bent (offset) to account for the difference in heights of the two aprons.

Praise Jesus, THAT was the answer. So even though my guitar was designed for level straps, I took some 1" wide x 1'8" thick bar steel and bent them in the middle making and offset about 1/2" creating a step down towards the back. And installed them under the guitar. This then solved my knee lever problems. And since the straps were steel, the bend did not take anything away from the rigidity. This I liked. I didn't flock them, But I did paint them flat black. Looked great.

Interesting side bit about this guitar. I did NOT like the tone of the guitar from day one. NEVER did like it. So naturally I scoffed at all the P/P hooplah; even remarking negatively on this forum in the early days concerning it.

But about 3 yrs before I started posting, my friend in Atlanta, (Mac Atcheson) had loaned me a set of 19K PU's to try and get a better sound. Mine came with 14.5K. But I procrastinated and never got around to putting them in. "Them PU's aint gonna make that sound any better!"

Then I decided to sell the "stupid" guitar; after I got my LeGrande. When I got a firm bid on it, I thought, "This is not right, the sound of this Emmons' is NOT what this buyer is probably expecting. And this is NOT the Christian thing to do".

So I remembered those 19K PU's that Mac had loaned me. (I know, it takes me a while

, but Mac is the last soul on this earth to ever care. He is a prince of a man). So I dug them out and replaced them on the 69 P/P.

I wanted to cry. THERE was the sound. THERE it was. Could NOT believe it. Oh how I wanted to back out of the deal. But it was too late. I would not go back on a firm bid. So I gave Mac the 14.5K's (which he WANTED all along) and shipped the guitar to a lucky buyer. I got 1600 dollars for it.

A '69 Emmons' with 10 pedals, 11 knee levers, fat back WITH two straps and a sound to die for. And never played out of my house!

But ya know what. Our Lord said,

"To whom much is given, much shall be required". So I shipped it an never looked back. And the blessings flowed even more,

Praise His holy name,

carl

[This message was edited by C Dixon on 23 February 2003 at 10:15 AM.]

Earnest Bovine · Post by **Earnest Bovine** » 23 Feb 2003 10:19 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>It had two strips like Bobbe talked about. They ran from the front to the rear aprons and were of course black flocked.
It was obvious what these metal straps were for. Wide arpons on a PSG hanging in mid air have nothing to make them rigid. These metal straps was THE answer for that. Pulling strings on a PSG, creates a lot of stress on the cabinet and aprons play a role here. So the straps are important IMO.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
But the strips (straps) run perpendicular to the changing string tension. What is the benefit of added rigidity in this direction?

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 23 Feb 2003 10:29 am

These perpendicular straps you are refering to Ernest are for keeping the front and back from "bowing out" and have nothing to do with anything else, the P-P Emmons steel guitars have NO cabnet drop because of the way the changer fingers piviot against the body of the guitar. (possibly I didn't truly understand your question?)
Bobbe

Jody Carver · Post by **Jody Carver** » 23 Feb 2003 10:52 am

Are you not happy I resurected this old thread??

[This message was edited by Jody Carver on 23 February 2003 at 08:18 PM.]

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 23 Feb 2003 11:00 am

I must take exception to my dear friend Bobbe and answer Ernest's question.

While it is true the Emmons' P/P has little to no cabinet drop; because of the way its changer works (IE, the raise finger stop being the wood body causes the finger to act as a "counterforce" ass'y like on the LeGrande III). a rigid front and rear apron DOES aid in helping to minimize any cabinet flexing.

Here is why. JUST like a piece of angle iron has been used for 100's of years as longitudinal strength in a myriad of construction applications, SO does the front and rear aprons of a PSG cabinet, UNLESS those aprons are permitted to bow in our outwards.

On the Emmons' they tend to bow outward, on my Excel they bow inward. Incidently, Excel is now installing a metal strap in the middle of the guitar from front to back. And SO am I! He does one more thing.

On Excel superB models, there is a tall 1/4" thick aluminum rail that runs the entire length of the guitar; in the center for rigidity and center crossrod support. This new strap is screwed to this rail; as well as the front and rear aprons.

In summation. ANY thing one can do to help minimize pulling stress is an advantage over not doing it on a PSG. It is estimated that each string exerts about 30 lbs of stress.

Times 20 (D-10) that is a whopping 600 lbs! Then when a pedal is pressed you must multiply all raise pullers by 30 lbs. So it is obvious that a strap (keeping the aprons from bowing; or angle iron, etc is much superior than not having them.

carl[This message was edited by C Dixon on 23 February 2003 at 11:06 AM.]

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 23 Feb 2003 11:12 am

Carl, yes, you are correct, but what I am trying to express is that it just isn't as nessary on a push pull as it is on a all pull guitar. The "Bowing effect" when pedals are depressed is a very slight factor but remember, the very nature of the push-pull is that if you didn't have a slight amount of Cabnet drop, your sixth string would actually raise,you know , go sharp! So a small amount of P-P body flex could be benificial to the "playing it tune process".
If you wish me to get very deep into this explanation, well, I don't know if my spelling could stand it or not! ( Ha! Ha!) I know more than I can spell!
Bobbe

Jody Carver · Post by **Jody Carver** » 23 Feb 2003 12:03 pm

On my 69 Emmons there is a metal strap running from front to back in addition to the straps front and rear attached to the apron.I hear no noticeable cabinet drop and this guitar has not been modified in any way.

It came from the Emmons factory this way.