Question about Emmons Fat Back P/P

David Mullis · Post by **David Mullis** » 7 Sep 2001 7:12 am

Does anybody know why Emmons came out with this design?

Thanks
David

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 7 Sep 2001 7:23 am

Around 1970 or 71 I believe.

Mike Cass or Bobbe Seymour could tell you for sure.

My '69 S-12 is cutout and my '71 D-10 was a fatback (until Mike cut out the back apron for me).

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2000 Fessenden S-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Emmons D-10 9x9, 1971 Dobro

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 7 Sep 2001 8:09 am

Yes, this design was incorporated for 3 1/2 years. It's reason for being is that it is a much stronger design, and made possible the installation of a anti-bowing strap to be installed on the rear board of the body. Emmons was having a problem sense its inception with the body bowing out, and the cross shafts exiting the bottom of the guitar. Steel cross straps and anti-bowing straps were installed to keep this from happening. This flat back design also was a little easier and less expensive to produce. The disadvantage of this design was less leg clearance under the guitar, and additional weight. I have been playing one of these guitars since 1975. It is a 1971 model, and it is priceless to me. It is heavier than a lot of guitars, however it is more than worth the added weight in tone and dependability. These guitars today, being rare, are sought after by hard core disciminating players that appreciate their unique qualities. These guitars are called fat backs, flat backs, or non-cut backs. Are they worth more than the other Emmons? No, but they are worth no less either. They were made with wide pedal spacing (2 3/4"), and the later flat backs had 2 1/2" spacing. All had the steel reinforcment pedal stop bar on the front apron, as opposed to the wood ones on the earlier guitars. All had the thick aluminum end castings, and the thinner steel bell cranks. Serial numbers on these guitars were from the 1400's to the 1900's, with a few cut back guitars manufactored along with these.

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 7 Sep 2001 8:09 am

I had a 71 fatback, S/N 1464D. I got it new in April or May of 71.

Glenn Austin · Post by **Glenn Austin** » 7 Sep 2001 8:49 am

Was the fatback also manufactured as a single neck? Because my S 10 has a metal strap from front to back, and the back apron is not cutout either. It also has a metal pedal stop along the inside front apron, and apparently dates around 70-72.

David Mullis · Post by **David Mullis** » 7 Sep 2001 10:01 am

Thanks guys, Bobbe I figured you would have the answer!

I kind of suspected that's why they came up with this design. A little more leg clearance would be nice, but for the same reasons you mentioned, I can live without it.

Take Care
David

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 7 Sep 2001 1:16 pm

Yes Glenn, There were many flat back s-10's built ,but, The strap I'm talking about is running along the full length of the body. It just keeps the back board from bending. Anyone ever notice that the P-P guitars have no cabnet drop? There are two reasons for this.
Next chapter!
Bobbe----the serious guy.

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 7 Sep 2001 1:17 pm

Jack Stoner, My flat back Emmons p-p is # 1554 D----- There never was a bad one.
Bobbe

Jody Carver · Post by **Jody Carver** » 7 Sep 2001 2:19 pm

Bobbe,,,boy am I glad I saw this post..I have one of those guitars with no cutout in the back,,I wondered why others had the cutout in the apron and mine didnt ...

The serial number on my Emmons is #1399 I had Ron build it for me(Fred Trogden) back in 1969....I have been told that this model
has little or no cabinet drop.

I have enough things that have dropped,,,so Im happy at least this is not one of them.
When I lift the guitar however,,,,,things do "drop" but not the cabinet......no wonder
they call you The EE,,,,Emmons Expert,,,
There is the big "E" and you are the "double" "E"......thanks for this info.
Looks like I got in just in time,,,,if the serial numbers started with app: 1400,,,,

Frank Parish · Post by **Frank Parish** » 7 Sep 2001 2:23 pm

Mine is #1517, Birdseye sunburst with alluminum necks 9/6. Tone to die for. I've had four of these guitars and they were all great guitars. Two 71's and two 72's

Ole Dantoft · Post by **Ole Dantoft** » 7 Sep 2001 2:29 pm

Bobbe,
It was a pleasure to meet you at the ISGC !
We spoke briefly about my P/P, and it's a D10 #1646, 9+4 with the large pedals and narrow spacing, plays like butter and sounds like a dream.

Oh, did I mention that I like that guitar ?

Jack, nice meetin' you too !! In fact, it was a fabulous weekend overall !!

Ole[This message was edited by Ole Dantoft on 07 September 2001 at 03:29 PM.]

Jody Carver · Post by **Jody Carver** » 7 Sep 2001 2:57 pm

Bobbe,,I think I spoke too soon,,I just looked under the guitar,,,it has two(2) straps going across the guitar,,,I dont see anything going the full length of the guitar.

Since I really dont play it often and probably have app 100 hours on it ,,,I wouldnt really have anything to compare it to. It is mint condition,,,,9 pedals and 6 knee levers,,black,red case,...If there would be a strap running the length of the guitar ,,,would it be visible?? as for the sound,,,I am not an expert on that either,I know it sounds good when others have played it,,,but maybe my ears are used to that Fender sound,,,I will e mail you a few pictures of this guitar,,,,I did send you the one of my Bigsby right? I unfortunatly do not have a knee lever raising the 2 e's to f" I dont recall if that change was in vogue back then,,,Im really old and out of it
so I should have a knee lever changed to do that raise for me,,,,,there are a couple of knee levers that are not necessary as far as what they do,.....so I can probably have someone make that modification for me....

BTW the pickups on both necks are wound to
20.000 ohms I know that,,,Ron was going to wind the e 9th pickup to 15,000 ohms,,,I told him I liked a "fatter sound" no my wife is not fat,,,,but I do like a fat sound,,,this has a good sound,,,when someone else plays it...

Chris Lucker · Post by **Chris Lucker** » 7 Sep 2001 3:30 pm

Jody,
I believe the lengthwise reinforcer that Bobbe is referring to is the steel pedal stop found along the length of the front apron. Prior to this model of Emmons the pedal stop was made of maple.
Chris

Kenny Forbess · Post by **Kenny Forbess** » 7 Sep 2001 3:39 pm

What Bobbe is referring to is a steel strap or flat piece of metal(if you will)that is running(screwed on) ON the bottom of the front & rear apron,
They are either painted or flocked, lot's of people don't even know they're there,
ain't that right Bobbe ??

David I know for a fact, you got a goodern.
The old 71 Weldon rosewood !!

Edited for spelling
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kenny
66 Emmons 8&7
Derby D-10 9&8

[This message was edited by KENNY FORBESS on 07 September 2001 at 04:42 PM.]

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 7 Sep 2001 4:36 pm

Yes Kenny, You are correct! They are flocked from the factory and most folks don't know they are there.The piece used as a pedal stop running down the front is steel on the 1970 models 'till the end of production and has nothing to do with the reenforcement straps.Maple was used as the pedal stops before that. Most folks never knew this was wood on the earlier models.
Jody , WOW, and I envied you for the bigsby!It sounds like you have a Emmons to die for.I am in love with that model! If you ever deside to -----well, you know.
Ole' it was such a pleasure and a real shock to see you and get to talk to you at the covention!Never thought I'd have this chance.I wish all steel players could have met you and seen what a great person you are. After watching Tom Morrell, Mike Weirauch, Bill Lawrence,and Jeff Peterson in our drinking mode,you may never want to visit the states or ever meet any americans again!
Bobbe "love those P-P's" Seymour! [This message was edited by BobbeSeymour on 07 September 2001 at 05:40 PM.]

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 7 Sep 2001 4:45 pm

Bobbe.. You know that with all this knowledge and the willingness to share it, you will never be permitted to pass on.

Ole Dantoft · Post by **Ole Dantoft** » 7 Sep 2001 4:51 pm

Bobbe,
I'm sure happy I ran into you as well !! And NO - having a drink or maybe two, I don't remember

, with you and the guys DIDN'T exactly scare me away !! In fact I think we were both forced to leave at closing time, weren't we ?

Ole[This message was edited by Ole Dantoft on 07 September 2001 at 05:52 PM.]

Jody Carver · Post by **Jody Carver** » 7 Sep 2001 4:53 pm

Chris & Kenny....I think I have found the rod
I have been lying on my back all night looking for the rod,,,it looks like it is located on the apron front & rear but is hardly noticeable,,,,Thanks alot all my life I have had to deal with "middle legs" now after all these years Im looking for a rod.

Ya never know what you will find when you lift up an apron....Im gonna look again to make sure...Thanks,,,never too old to learn.

I think I feel it ,,,it is the same width as the apron ,,,wow,,,and I never knew I had it.

Great sounding guitar,,,but I have never played it through a Peavey,,,,for obvious reasons,,,I was a Fender guy,,,wonder how it would sound through a PV?? I wouldnt want leo to find all this out,,,,I would die and
"go to hell" I have been told to go there many times,,,,,,thanks again,,,I know Leo is watching me.....even as I write this....
Sorry Leo "only kidding"

Jody Carver · Post by **Jody Carver** » 7 Sep 2001 4:59 pm

Bobbe,,,PP ,,,look under the apron?? This sounds like X rated info,,,,,saw your post after I posted my last reply,,,

Appreciate all your help guys..especially you
Mr. Seymour,,see ya never know what ya have till its too late,,,I almost sold this guitar a little while back,,,,,,glad I didnt.I'll bet it will sound even better now that I know I have that support rod,,,,and Black does sound better doesn't it,,,,how about my pickup ohmage 20.000 each does that
sound like a good mix?,,,,

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 7 Sep 2001 5:23 pm

Yes Ole' I guess you did stick with us 'till the end, I do remember them throwing us out around three o'clock, I think I stepped on Mike Wierauch's hands right after that as he was crawling to his linnen closet.The maids threw him out a couple hours later and made him sleep in the hall with me!(and Morrell).
Jody-----Those guitars sound good with the Ferder Twin amp and several others in the Fender line. I am a dealer for Peavey however I cut many sessions from 69 to 74 with The product we now call the "F" word. (Fender). I loved the little black face Prinston Reverb.Is there anything that sounds that good and is so small and light today? Peavey may come out with a Nashville 100 (one hundred) in the near future but don't tell anyone cuz it's 'spose to be a secret.I bet they won't tell me anything else in confidence!
Jody, I can see you right now, under that great guitar , looking for this stuff we are talking about. How many other treasures do you have in there?
By the way, I have been using Sho-Bud amps at the Nashville Palace while subing for Mike Sweeney.My favorite is one that was Jimmy Days Xmas tree amp, A 12' CTS speaker and it's great. not to loud but tone is beyond wonderful.
This is a great post, lets go to 300,
Bobbe
Bobbe

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 7 Sep 2001 5:27 pm

Richard Sinkler, If only that could be true!
You are very nice, thank you!
Bobbe

Jay Ganz · Post by **Jay Ganz** » 7 Sep 2001 6:21 pm

<img src=http://home.hvc.rr.com/jsganz/Fatback.jpg>[This message was edited by Jay Ganz on 09 October 2002 at 09:39 AM.]

Jim Smith · Post by **Jim Smith** » 7 Sep 2001 6:29 pm

Aren't all lacquer Emmons fat backs?

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 7 Sep 2001 6:55 pm

Jim, no,-------Jay, your a show off, I love it! Great picture!
Jim , I have had them both ways but it does seem to lean toward what you said.

John Lacey · Post by **John Lacey** » 8 Sep 2001 6:43 am

Hey Bobbe, mine is a 1329 and is a flat back. Must have slipped under the wire. Ganz, you have too many beautiful guitars. Let's see a shot of the front of that horn.