HELP!!!!!! Is Goodrich becoming obselete??

Kenny Foy · Post by **Kenny Foy** » 21 Feb 2003 3:34 pm

I'm Having trouble getting good pots for GOODRICH pedals. Is there a web site for Goodrich pedals. All the pots I'm getting from the dealers are real muddy and have a lot of resistance. Understand even some dealers know that the pots are inferior. I want to see what Goodrich has to offer, but if they are know better than what I've seen purchased, then as far as I'm concerned a goodrich will be an obselete pedal in a short time. Any info would be appreciated. b0b, if this is in the wrong place move it.

Frank Parish · Post by **Frank Parish** » 21 Feb 2003 4:01 pm

I know what you mean. The Clarostat pots are made in Mexico these days and for some reason aren't worth a dime. George L won't even guarantee them anymore and he's been selling them for years. I've had a pedal here for 6 months I can't get a pot for. I'm glad I bought a Hilton. You can try something else but be sure it's the right thing and works. If you find one that works that's not a Clarostat let me know.

Kenny Foy · Post by **Kenny Foy** » 21 Feb 2003 5:07 pm

Frank, Is Goodrich still in business and if so are they puttin the clarostat in their pedals and IF so are they a better quality. Alot of companies put their best product in or on for initial sale with their products and sell what I call 2nd's,PARTS, to distributors. Did you try and contact Goodrich? I need some kind of a solution and I'm sure lots of others do to. Does anyone else have a solution?--Kenny Ray--

David Deratany · Post by **David Deratany** » 21 Feb 2003 5:34 pm

Some years ago, in either Guitar Player or Steel Guitarist Magazine, there was an article about how to build a device that would make the pot on your volume pedal a slave that would control the voltage going to a circuit that would control the volume. You could build it into a little box which would connect to the in/out of the pedal and the guitar and amp would connect to it.

It worked not by varying the resistance, with its resultant effect on capacitance and tone, but by varying the voltage going to a nominal gain circuit, such that the condition of the pot mattered little, if at all, and there would be no coloration added to the sound. I built one and it did just what it was supposed to.

With one of these you could perhaps play a lifetime without having to replace the pot, and even if you did have to, you could use the ones that are out there now and said not to be very good.

Someone must be able to put their hands on this article. As I recall it was easy enough to build: just a round 9 pin ic, 9 volt battery and a few other components. I was able to assemble it onto a piece of perfboard, and into a Radio Shack aluminum box without any difficulty.

Damir Besic · Post by **Damir Besic** » 21 Feb 2003 6:58 pm

"Hilton"

Gary Walker · Post by **Gary Walker** » 21 Feb 2003 7:18 pm

Damir, I agree about the Hilton. I'll never go back to Goodrich or anything else.

Kenny Foy · Post by **Kenny Foy** » 21 Feb 2003 7:40 pm

Damir,Did you and Gary go to the Hilton because of the pot situation or because of the Hilton pedal itself?

Al Marcus · Post by **Al Marcus** » 21 Feb 2003 8:47 pm

Kenny- I don't have the answer to your question. But I have owned few Goodrich Pedals and they were always first class. I had a Hilton also a first class pedal.

I have a Goodrich Photo Cell light pedal right now and it doesn't change the tone or take any power from the amp. So it works good for me.

I don't think they are obsolete as they are selling through dealers a pedal now without using a pot and David Wright has one and likes it very well........al

Jeff Peterson · Post by **Jeff Peterson** » 21 Feb 2003 9:27 pm

Price will keep alot of Goodrich sales going. Keith is still new, but gaining daily. As soon as Goodrich finds a way around Keith's patent(s), they will be making the same pedal and knowing Keith's relatively small operation, will cut the cost per unit to 'relieve the competition'. This is not a shot at Goodrich...just good business sense.
It's like a race, if Keith can increase production/lower costs/maintain quality-control, he can literally drive most any pedal maker down if not out...just on the strength of the sound quality of his pedal alone. I believe pots are a dinosaur just waiting to become extinct. Again, many many people at this point in time cannot justify the expense of a new Hilton pedal? If you're a pro, I can't believe you don't already have one. If you're a novice, it's absolutely the best investment you can make in your fundamental tone....even more than your amp choice. No tone change, no scratch, no maintenance.....what could be better?
By the way, it took me a year to convince Bobbe(hard-headed-stick to what works)Seymour to even try one....now he swears by Keith's pedal..practically a fanatic! Now you cannot say an 'old dog' can't learn a new trick. Bobbe never sounded better..he has a great ear for tone, one of the best.[This message was edited by Jeff Peterson on 21 February 2003 at 09:32 PM.][This message was edited by Jeff Peterson on 21 February 2003 at 09:33 PM.]

Jim Smith · Post by **Jim Smith** » 21 Feb 2003 10:58 pm

As soon as Goodrich finds a way around Keith's patent(s), they will be making the same pedal

Jeff, are you saying that Goodrich took their new CD-2 pedal off the market because of patent infringements?

Quesney Gibbs · Post by **Quesney Gibbs** » 22 Feb 2003 1:39 am

I have been using an old Goodrich light pedal for over 22 years without a single failure. It has beed dropped, had beer spilled on it, been in sub zero temps and still works just great.

I would never buy anything with a pot in it after my experience with my pedal. It's one of the best things I ever bought.

Gino Iorfida · Post by **Gino Iorfida** » 22 Feb 2003 5:09 am

David, I found a reprint of that article at: http://www.fortunecity.com/tinpan/humperdinck/223/craigvol.gif

Better yet, go to http://www.tonepad.com and look under projects and then the 'craig anderton volume pedal retrofit' for a better schematic, pcb layout etc...
However, this schematic has a few limitations. 1) It uses the CA3080 transconductance amp, which is at the heart of the Ross and MXR compressors (in fact, this circuit IS a compressor circuit without the envelope detection section!! -- it's the actual audio path only), however, one limitation of this chip is not only the tonal coloration (read peaks and valleys all over the place, limited high end response, which is increased the more the amp is in the 'turned down' state--- in other words, it will sound like a normal volume pedal does w/o the buffer/matchbox in front of it-- and no matter what you do, you cant get those back, w/o some equing etc..
2) second drawback with that chip is the fact that it doesn't need much signal to make it distort. A tele or strat puts one way into overdrive range easily if driven hard... I can only imagine what a PSG will do to one!

[This message was edited by Gino Iorfida on 22 February 2003 at 05:39 AM.]

autry andress · Post by **autry andress** » 22 Feb 2003 6:04 am

As the old saying goes: "Don't makem like they used to". I put out the bucks & solved
my problem. Go Hilton. Now I own 2 .
Very Good Investment....

David Deratany · Post by **David Deratany** » 22 Feb 2003 7:12 am

Gino-

Damn, you are good. I wish I were so organized. Having just bought a b-Bender Tele, I am now anxious to try it with that.
Mmmmmmm, distortion.

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 22 Feb 2003 8:19 am

Everyone should go back and read Jeff Petersons post again, every word in it is 100% on!
He's giving you all the true professional scoop, Hilton is the only choice at the moment that makes sense, You can't afford it?
Well let me tell you, by the time you replace the pot in a regular "pot" pedal three times, you'll have more money in it than you would if you had bought the Hilton in the first place. After ywo years of use, the Hilton is cheaper and more dependable to own and maintain, plus they sound PERFECT! At any position! Yes, I'm sure Goodrich will have a answer in the future, but the "light beam" pedal isn't it. I can't stand the tone change through out it's travel, that's why it isn't being built by this company anymore. However, this is a very great company, they just can't obtain good "pots" anymore. This problem won't improve either, I'm sure. Hilton is the only answer at this stage of the game.
I always try to keep all popular volume pedals in stock at the best prices.

Bobbe Seymour
(kinda'hawkin' my wares)

Jim Smith · Post by **Jim Smith** » 22 Feb 2003 8:46 am

I'm sure the Hilton is a great pedal but...

by the time you replace the pot in a regular "pot" pedal three times, you'll have more money in it than you would if you had bought the Hilton in the first place.

Come on Bobbe, the Hilton pedal is around $270, who is paying $90 for pots? Even paying someone to install them for you wouldn't run that high.

I'm sure Goodrich will have a answer in the future, but the "light beam" pedal isn't it. I can't stand the tone change through out it's travel, that's why it isn't being built by this company anymore.

Goodrich hasn't made light beam pedals, which did change the tone, for many years. Their new CD-2 pedal used a green "light" (LED maybe?!?) with a rotating drum, not light bulbs, and doesn't change the tone. Based on Jeff's post, I assume there was at least a threat of patent infringement litigation as the reason Goodrich pulled them from the market.

Personally, I've used a Goodrich L-120 since 1982. Including about four years of six night a week honky tonk jobs, I'm still on the original Allen Bradley pot and have never even lubricated it.

For the last few years I've been using my volume pedal in the effects loop of my processor. When used this way, it changes the volume of the processor and doesn't affect the tone of the guitar at all. This is similar to the "three cord hookup" in Peavey amps.

I believe Keith himself said, for this application his pedal won't make a difference. I tried one of Keith's pedals with this setup on one gig and didn't notice any difference.

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 22 Feb 2003 8:50 am

The reason Goodrich quit making the light beam pedal is because of liability. It was powered by 110 volts and on a wet stage there was the possibility of getting shocked.
I sent mine in and they gave me credit for it on a new pedal. They didn't want it out there anymore. I very much enjoy working with the Goodrich people.
Erv

Peter · Post by **Peter** » 22 Feb 2003 9:39 am

For the first time I am agreeing with Bobbe. I bought a Hilton and it is a superior pedal.
I believe Bobbe collects old volume pedals, so when you buy your Hilton, you can rip Bobbe off and sell him your collectors' items. At least you'll recoup some of the (not so high) cost.

------------------
Peter den Hartogh-Fender Artist S10-Remington U12-Hilton Volume Pedal-Gibson BR4 lapsteel-Guya "Stringmaster" Copy-MusicMan112RP-Peavy Rage158- - My Animation College in South Africa

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 22 Feb 2003 10:31 am

Jim, my spelling is bad, not my math.
Assuming retail prices here, most folks don't just buy a pot but send the pedal out for repair, this comes to about $50.00 each time,($25.00 labor,$25.00 for the pot) then adding the price of the pedal, $161.00 retail, this comes to $311.00. See? Cheaper to buy a Hilton. Not everyone can change their own $25.00 pot, if they can, after six times changing the pot, they still have a pedal that will need another pot soon, sound just average and still have Hilton money in it. Just make finantual sense to save money and get a better pedal.The Hilton!
Remember this also, Pot quality just keeps getting worse as time goes on, Clearostat doesn't care anymore, they could quit making pots at any time, then what? No one else is making anything that will work.
Hilton, is the only way today, tomorrow who knows.

Bobbe

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 22 Feb 2003 10:42 am

By reading the posts of some of the previously uninformed posters, it seems as though some of them are under the impression that the "Hilton Pedal" is a light beam pedal, it is not (thank goodness)and should not be compared to one.
Hilton uses a total different system altogether that does not affect the tone, does not have any moving parts, will not ware out etc. It is also totally adjustable as to taper and cutoff positions from outside the pedal, try that with a pot pedal.
It would be nice though if some new company would build a perfect carbon pot that would last a good while and not affect tone. My collection of old volume pedals would like it too!

Post by **b0b** » 22 Feb 2003 12:10 pm

Moved to 'Electronics' section.