Which steel to buy in your opinion and why

Mike Neer · Post by **Mike Neer** » 9 Feb 2003 8:31 am

I'm ready to purchase a new steel and I need some opinions on which make and model. In the NY area there aren't that many ways to test drive new steels, so I turn to you.
I play a single neck Carter 10-string all pull with 3 and 4, and I play a variety of music, including rock and soul. I'd be grateful for any help you can give. I don't think price would be a huge factor in my decision.

Post by **Joey Ace** » 9 Feb 2003 9:17 am

I have more questions than advise, at first.

Is your Carter a "Carter Starter"?

Are there some recorded examples of Steel that you love the sound of? What are they?
example: Paul Franklin and Lloyd Green sound very different. (JayDee Maness' recordings with Desert Rose Band are my favorite)

Have you decided on S10, D10,U12 or ? ?

Ray Montee · Post by **Ray Montee** » 9 Feb 2003 9:24 am

WHY might you be considering a brand name change? Carters are supposed to be great!
In today's market, I'd venture to guess that any one of the ten most popular names you see being played would be a minimal risk investment. Beyond that, you still might find a jewel.
I attended the Texas and St.Louis shows last year for the specific purpose of getting to sample some of those top names for an anticipated new guitar purchase. No matter how long I stood there at the various booths and no matter how interested I believe I appeared, I guess I was not aggressive enough. No invitations to play their products as the same group of good ole boys were playing all of them all day long. Don't know if those good ole boys purchased anything or not, but of course, neither did I.
I've had such great luck with me '72 Emmons
I'd likely lean that direction however the new MSA really grabs my eyeballs tho' have never played one.
As a result, I purchased a bunch more antique RIckenbachers and have enjoyed every minute I've played them. Good Luck to you on your selection.

Mike Neer · Post by **Mike Neer** » 9 Feb 2003 9:39 am

Joey, yes it's a Carter Starter.
As far as sounds that I love, that's a tough one. Bud Charleton, early Buddy, Gib Wharton on Holmes Brothers records, Lloyd on Charley Pride's record, Ralph Mooney.
I'd like something with a nice round, fat tone, great for chordal playing.

Jim Smith · Post by **Jim Smith** » 9 Feb 2003 9:51 am

Check out a Fessenden. He's fairly close to you (Montpelier, VT) should you need repairs or advice, and many northeast players play them. He should be shipping my new D-12 this week.

------------------
Jim Smith jimsmith94@attbi.com
-=Dekley D-12 10&12=-
-=Fessenden D-12 (coming soon)=-
Stereo Steel rig w/Boss GX-700
IVL SteelRider w/JV-880

Bobby Duncan · Post by **Bobby Duncan** » 9 Feb 2003 9:58 am

Hi Mike,
I'm in the market for a used Carter-Starter for one of my students, if/when yours comes available.
I play a Zumsteel and IMHO, nothing else compares. I hope you buy something else tho, because I don't want to have to wait that long to buy your Carter. If you buy a new Zum, the wait is 8 to 10 months. You may get lucky tho and find a used one.
Happy hunting.
BD

Ricky Davis · Post by **Ricky Davis** » 9 Feb 2003 10:56 am

Mike in your reference to the sound of players you like and the sound/tone your looking for............My suggestion is your looking for a real wood pedal steel guitar.....and none of the formica covered aluminum neck steels will give you that.
Bruce Zumstead and Del Mullen and Jerry Fessenden all make "All Wood" guitars and are very good for a modern pedal steel and of course the Fulawka; but the older steels would be ShoBud and Marlen or ZB Custom.
Any one of these guitars in my "House of Wood" at www.mightyfinemusic.com(a little updating going on right now..but back on in no time) will give you the sound you are looking for.
Ricky[This message was edited by Ricky Davis on 09 February 2003 at 11:01 AM.]

Graham · Post by **Graham** » 9 Feb 2003 11:05 am

Ricky left one name off his list - Fulawka, made by Ed Fulawka, in Canada. 100% hand crafted, all-wood lacquer. I know, I have 2 of his steels.
Bit of waiting time, but, IMO, well worth it.

http://www.ambrec.com/fulawka

------------------
Rebel™
ICQ 614585

http://users.interlinks.net/rebel/steel/steel.html

[This message was edited by Graham on 09 February 2003 at 11:08 AM.]

Ricky Davis · Post by **Ricky Davis** » 9 Feb 2003 11:11 am

Hey Graham; haa...I guess I was editing whilest you were posting...ah..ha..

Thanks for the Fulawka link...and my opinion is the Fulawka is the best steel made.
Ricky

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 9 Feb 2003 11:36 am

"Which steel should I buy?"

It's like saying which car should I buy? It is much too subjective to even hint at giving you an answer directly. Posts on this thread have proven that already; and they will continue to validate that as long as members continue to post.

I will give you some pointers that might help YOU decide:

1. If at all possible, try your best to visit the Dallas or the ISGC convention BEFORE you make your decision. If you do, you will see dozens of PSG's of every persuasion.

2. Pay little attention to any one telling you, "this is the one to buy". Remember it is very subjective. What one likes, another abhors. Do not let esthetics and pretty colors muddy your good mind of logic; like "what's truly under the hood?"

3. Establish a budget of how much you can spend. PSG's range any where in the 100's all the way up to 6+ grand. So it is going to be a serious investment. Not to be taken illadvisedly.

4. If you are one who is apt to trade often, resale values are very important. Some steels rapidly loose their value, while others not only retain their value; but some have even appreciated in value. Ask, ask and ask again. You can gain much info on this forum. Try your best to delve thru the "hype" and "good ole boy" stuff. And seek the genuine truth and facts.

5. One of the biggest and most important factors is the reputation of service by a specific manufacturer. And this varies, from almost ZILCH, to a manufacturer like Carter. Who make it a point to focus on service AFTER the sale.

6. Dealers can be a great help: and are NOT always higher priced. And their know how can be invaluable in some cases.

Now that I have said all that, NONE Of these can touch the two items listed below:

1. Quality of engineering and assembly of manufacture. Get past the rainbow colors and shinny chrome parts; and do look UNDER the hood. Feel the pedals and knee levers from one PSG to the other. Be surprised at the differences. When you sit behind one that immediately says, "Le's me and you make music", use THAT as a base of comparison and go from there.

2. Sound! Out of all the things to consider, sound is THE most important of all. But it is not a given sound as spoken by others! It is the sound YOU want to hear. Nothing is as important as this. Nothing. The best built, most beautiful PSG in the world, is not worth a flip, if you are dissapointed in the sound. Believe me, the sound is NOT all in the hands. PSG's DO sound DIFFERENT under the SAME hands.

And the best way to discover this is to attend steel guitar shows; especially those who have a wide display by distributors.

Finally do this; write down all the things you like about your Carter Starter. Then write down ALL the things you do NOT like about it. Do not lie to yourself. We often do. Now, make the first case your minimum requirement on a new guitar.

Then, make the second part the icing on the cake. The ideal situation (always) when purchasing anything, is to retain ALL the things you like; PLUS aquire all the remedies for the things you do not like.

While this is rarely attainable 100%; and some tradeoffs are often necessary, a little thought and tenacity is well worth the effort.

Much good luck, and may God bless you in your quests,

carl

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 9 Feb 2003 12:04 pm

I'm ready to purchase a new steel...

Why? You haven't really given us the reason why you're considering a new steel. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>
I'd like something with a nice round, fat tone, great for chordal playing.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Well, that's a hint, but I think your present steel would do that, given the right amp and settings. Sooooo...are you just looking for a "change", or are you looking for more necks/pedals? Rate yourself as a player, and then decide..."Is my steel holding me back, or am I just bored?"

Now, either of these is a quite valid reason to get a new steel, but only if it's the former reason could a new steel actually make you a better player. [This message was edited by Donny Hinson on 09 February 2003 at 12:07 PM.]

Mike Neer · Post by **Mike Neer** » 9 Feb 2003 12:20 pm

Thanks everyone for your replies--that's quite a bit to digest.

Although I'm a relative newcomer to pedal steel, I've been a musician most of my life. The reason I want a new steel is, well, frankly, tone and construction. The Carter Starter is a good axe to learn on, but I would like one that I feel comfortable traveling with. As far as amps and all that, I'm well covered. Also, I need to hear a better balanced instrument. Not knocking it, I just need to move up a notch. I think the Carter would even make a decent backup steel. I'll probably spend a few months checking out what I can, thanks to some kind offers from Forumites.
Thanks all.

Post by **Joey Ace** » 9 Feb 2003 12:32 pm

The Carter Starter is great to learn on, but is nothing at all like their Pro models.

Carter Pro models compare favorably with all the top brands. You have many good ones to choose from. Carter, Zum, Fulawaka, and many others.

The U12 or D10 or S10 , or question still needs to be addressed. Do some searching in the archives here if you're unsure. You'll probably still be unsure, but you'll understand the arguments for each.

David Cobb · Post by **David Cobb** » 9 Feb 2003 2:54 pm

Mike, you're not becoming one of those #$&@* collectors, are you?

Bill Llewellyn · Post by **Bill Llewellyn** » 9 Feb 2003 3:36 pm

Well said, Carl. There's a heap of wisdom in your words. I think anyone looking to buy a PSG would be well advised to take note.

Damir Besic · Post by **Damir Besic** » 9 Feb 2003 5:10 pm

I think the best way is to sit behind every guitar you are interested in and try it.When you are buying a instrument you can have two or three identical instruments next to each other and each one of those three will give you a diferent feeling and only one will be THE one that feels right to you.When I was buying a banjo I was in the store with many professional models from wich every single one was a big name in the bluegrass world,but only one felt right to me in my hands and that was the Stelling.I liked Gibson`s granadas and RB`s and good ol Ome was good too as it was a Rich & Taylor etc..but boy,when I got my hands on that Stelling I saw it in the second,that was what I was looking for.Everything plays the role,the looks,neck,weigh,strings,tone, even case. I can go so far to say that every instrument has even a diferent smell to it,wich you like it or not.I would never buy serious instrument without trying it first.Wich I actualy did,I bought my last `74 Emmons from SGN while it was still in the parts laying around the shop,but then again,that was a `74 Emmons push pull, and we all know that you can`t go wrong with them.

Mike Neer · Post by **Mike Neer** » 9 Feb 2003 5:13 pm

David, the only thing I'm collecting is paychecks.

Gaylon Mathews · Post by **Gaylon Mathews** » 9 Feb 2003 6:49 pm

Mike,

I have played Emmons guitars for 20 years with an occasional Sho-Bud, Mullen, JCH etc thrown in for a brief time. I always went back to an Emmons. However, I've had a "Carter Bug" for a few years now. A few weeks ago I was thinking of selling one of my Emmons guitars and buying a Carter. Lo and behold a guy listed a Carter D-10 8 & 8 on the forum. Assuming he needed cash but hoping different, I emailed him and asked if he was interested in a trade. Well, he was selling the Carter to buy an Emmons so he'd have 2 guitars just alike. We worked an even trade and I've got to say, this is the best sounding guitar I've ever played bar none! Now I'm thinking of selling my other Emmons and getting another Carter. Now, before the flames start, I said The best that I'VE ever played. It's all up to the individual. I can give you plenty of reasons why I like this guitar beter than the Emmons I traded but that'll keep for another time.

------------------
Gaylon's Homepage
www.geocities.com/nashville/1064

Craig Collins & High Lonesome
www.craigcollins.org

Ann Fabian · Post by **Ann Fabian** » 21 Feb 2003 9:23 am

As Ricky Davis suggested above, if you are looking for a "real wood pedal steel guitar", he missed one other builder.

That is Carter Steel Guitars, with our new wood neck option on our Custom Shoppe models:

<CENTER>

More info, photos, and quote information on this option and other Custom Shoppe offerings. </CENTER>

This wood neck Carter will be at the Dallas Show in 2 weeks.

Ann Fabian

Carter Steel Guitars
www.SteelGuitar.com
www.SteelGuitarINFO.com
www.OnLineSteelers.com
www.CarterStarter.com



[This message was edited by Ann Fabian on 21 February 2003 at 09:49 AM.]

Ricky Davis · Post by **Ricky Davis** » 21 Feb 2003 9:32 am

Hi Ann; and yes I certainly did miss another builder.....but now I know...Wow that is Awesome...do you have a pic of one of them beauties all built that we can put in the "House of Wood"??? I would consider it a pleasure to have that great craftmanship of that all wood Carter in there.
Ricky

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 21 Feb 2003 9:53 am

If you play rock, you would be better off with a 12 string instrument so you can hit the low E.

I agree on a wood guitar, and have one other suggestion- a used maple/lacquer MSA.

But whichever brand you choose, get one with 12 strings.

Tom Hodgin · Post by **Tom Hodgin** » 21 Feb 2003 12:47 pm

Mike, doesn't it make you wonder what an Emmons "Birds Eye Maple" guitar looks like..?? too nice for a old road warrior like me..I need something that is going to take a licking and come back kicking..formica..what ever you buy, try to find one that is at least 5 yrs. old and has been in the line of duty...see how it has held up under real working situations....tom

Sonny Jenkins · Post by **Sonny Jenkins** » 21 Feb 2003 1:46 pm

Shame on you Ricky,,,What about Williams, that gives the choice of wood or mica, same price,,, and superb craftsmanship????

Jody Carver · Post by **Jody Carver** » 21 Feb 2003 5:25 pm

Through e mail with Ricky,ole Ricky has made
me think a bit, and I'm takin his advice

Thanks Ricky
You are the "Guru" when it comes to perfection and quality. Heck if it's good enough for Ricky,,you can be sure its good enough for me

.[This message was edited by Jody Carver on 21 February 2003 at 05:27 PM.]

Jeff Peterson · Post by **Jeff Peterson** » 21 Feb 2003 9:12 pm

If I were starting, I would lean towards the guitar that set the standard that all other guitars are measured by since '64...Emmons. Ricky is very knowlegeable and informed...but his opinion of Fulawka is just that. I disagree completely with Ed's idea of 'my way is the only way', and 'no electronics match mine, and a neck is only a fretboard support', etc. No one can completely cover all aspects of any particular design. Taking the basic design through all it needs to go through, and then making TONE and playability, again, Emmons is the standard. In my guitars I realized that the situations I play in needed more control, and I have worked with Bill Lawrence for years to acheive all that is best from my Emmons. He came through maintaining the Emmons tone..but absolutely noise-free...just what I required. You need to adapt, consider your needs, and adjust accordingly. Emmons guitars are perfect for my situation,(live on tour, and recording), and in my opinion made the industry standard with the advent of Lawrence pickups.
Emmons single-coil are still a favorite for tone, but in my situation anything above the slightest whisper(pedal down), is unacceptable. I hate it when a TV director points a finger right at you and says anything other than 'get the camera on that thing'!.....not 'what's that hum'?