Minor chords

[Gabe Masry]

I'm playing in E7 tuning (low to high - B-D-E-G#-B-D).

I am super new to lap steel and I'm having a hard time finding minor chords that really stand out as much as major chords and "seeing" where the roots are. Any help on this?

Thanks!

[Tony Lombardo]

I'm certainly no lap steel expert, and I've never used E7 tuning. With that said, there seems to be three two-string minor chords available to you without slanting. Your 6th and 5th string (B and D) form a minor chord up and down the fretboard. Your 2nd and 1st strings offer the same minor chord. Also, your 3rd and 2nd strings (G# and B) form a minor chord. All three of these choices are two-note chords that utilize the root on the lower of the two strings and the flattened III on the higher string. Getting the fifth of the chord would be nice, but I don't know how to get that note in there in this tuning.

Sincerely
Tony L.

[Ben Feher]

Tony has you started, the Root-Minor 3rd position is important.

There is also the "Power Chord" with just the B and E strings, which fits over the minor chord.

But more importantly -- you need to also think of the "Major 3rd" that is between the Minor 3rd and the 5th of a minor chord. For example, in your open tuning, you have the E-G# relationship, which is part of the C# minor chord. Sometimes a very important part of the harmony of the song and could be what you're missing.

You have all the "parts" of a minor chord, but not all on the same fret. And you can't get a true 3 part minor chord unless you use an open string. For example if you bar your E string into at fret 2 to make an F# you and play your open B - D top strings, you get a full Bminor.

(BTW, are you sure your highest string is a D and not an E?)

[Paul Seager]

I started on E7 based on the advice that it was nearer to guitar but I gave up on it for a number of reasons, mainly because I didn't get on well with the educational material that I had bought.

I started back on C6 and although it was tough at first, I now think C6 is the way to go for any beginner no matter what your roots are. With C6 you have the Major, Major 6, Relative minor and it's 7 version all in a straight bar. Finding minors is also easy. If you think on that the distance between a root and the minor 3rd is a tone and a half, that is where you will find your minor! So if the C position is open, three frets up is the C minor. Depending on how many strings your steel has you will have several inversions of each major or minor chord.

I know this doesn't answer your question but I wanted to share the experience of why I changed from C6

[Bill Ladd]

If you're not committed to the E7 tuning, why not try a typical 6th tuning? Got a minor chord built right in.

[Peter den Hartogh]

Just for fun, just drop your 1st string a half tone to C# and just listen to what you can get.

[Mike Neer]

I've seen this story so many times, Gabriel. Many guitar players have gone through the same difficulties because they want to learn to apply what they know on guitar to the steel. I was there--I wasted a lot of time....

Do yourself a favor and spend some time with C6. Try the traditional path of learning, it really works. I know you don't like country, Hawaiian, etc., but the key to playing is locked in that music--they wrote the book! After you get some skills, you can play anything you want. Even a musician as great as Steve Kimock has sought out lessons because he felt he missing something.

If you plan in being in it for the long haul, you should definitely consider this advice. Once you find the joy of playing music--any music--on the instrument, you'll get it.

[Gabe Masry]

Yeah, typo on that tuning. High E, not D. I see a few minor chords in there. I will check out C6. I did order strings specifically for C6 tuning and it seems that the gauges are very different than what I have on there at the moment. Am I mistaken on this? Can I get a c6 tuning from what I've got on there now?

[Tony Lombardo]

What Mike says is right, and it's important. I'm learning A6 lap steel. With the help of a great teacher, I'm learning so much about the 6th tuning concepts that are such a major part of this instrument. 'Powerful stuff!

Tony L.

[Stephen Cowell]

Yeah, typo on that tuning. High E, not D. I see a few minor chords in there. I will check out C6. I did order strings specifically for C6 tuning and it seems that the gauges are very different than what I have on there at the moment. Am I mistaken on this? Can I get a c6 tuning from what I've got on there now?

You could tune for B6:

E down to Eb
B stays B
G# stays G#
E up to F# (tight!)
D up to Eb
B stays B

... or perhaps A6 would save breaking that 4th string:


E down to C# (loose!)
B down to A
G# down to F#
E stays E
D down to C#
B down to A

... or you could replace that fourth string if you want C6. A6 would be easier to learn, if you're well-versed in guitar... harder to root a C-string until you learn the new fretboard.

[Gabe Masry]

I'm going to try this tuning tonight when I get home from work. I'm also going to look for a teacher in my area. I'd really like to have someone lay it all out for me. I know I can figure it out eventually but to see it from the perspective that someone who's played it for years can bring could be very valuable.

Maybe there's an instructional book/video that someone can recommend??
Thanks again guys! You've all been a big help so far!!

[Stephen Abruzzo]

Until you get yourself a teacher.....go to http://www.looknohands.com/chordhouse/g ... ex_rb.html..... manually change the tuning to C6 and you can see/print-out any chord/scale that you want.

I did that and it is very helpful.

Georgeboards.com has very good Beginners Instruction work for C6.....I think it's a 2-DVD set and reasonably priced. Well worth it as George goes nice and slow on the DVDs and you're not overwhelmed by too much info.

[Dennis Coelho]

Scotty's in St. Louis has some great C6 materials. I also like the C6 song books that Doug Beaumier (a SGF member) has produced.

And there are several C6 vids on Youtube.

There is a Steel Guitar club in the Denver area.

What part of Colorado are you in?

[Gabe Masry]

What tuning does Robert Randolph use? I do like his style.

[Ben Feher]

Robert Randolph plays an E7th pedal steel. http://b0b.com/tunings/sacredsteel.html

I think you can get by sticking with E7th, there are some things it does real well and some things it doesn't do well.

I think technically speaking, C6th is overall a more versatile tuning, time has tested it and it has passed as "the" lap steel tuning. Of course, that doesn't mean it is right for you.

My advice? Buy a bunch of strings, play a tuning for a week and see how it fits the kind of music you want to play. Then try something new, but keep to the "standard" tunings -- they are "standard" for a reason. Once you try a few chose one and stick with it, its gonna take a LOT of time and effort before it feels natural.... but it will, eventually...

[John Mulligan]

Here is what is going to happen with tunings; you'll need at least two steel guitars to get the sounds you want. I have two, and I keep them in different tunings and they have quite different characters. I keep my Chandler Studio 6 in E^ tuning which is like C6 only a bit higher. The major and minor chords are quite accessible. I come from a blues background and it took me while to get the E6 tuning to sound funky, but it can be done, just by practicing your blues scales.

My other lap steel is a Tremblay from Quebec, Little Hobo style. http://www.tremblayguitars.com/archive/?serial=hb250209

I keep the Tremblay in open E tuning, same as the poular open D, but again, higher. Of course it sounds funky as soon as you tune it up, but I have also learned to get more country sounds out of it.

I'm no virtuoso, but I really enjoy having ready access to both tunings for different sounds and moods.

[Jordan Bissonnette]

as long as its not in the first couple frets normally what I do, is a (behind the bar pull) with my ring finger on the B string to get the relative minor...

So lets say you're playing a C chord on the 8th fret on string 1,2 and 3 (or 2,3,4 in your case).. with your ring finger pull the B string ( string 2 ) up a whole step and you'll be playing an Am chord... it's a cool way to switch from the 1 to the 6m and also gives it a cool pedal-steel sound. Once you master that than you can work on pulling the 2 and 3 string at the same time then you can go from the 1 to the 4 chord and give it a pedal steel sound.

I have a lapsteel rag video on my youtube where I do some licks by pulling the string. It's a cool technique once you get used to it.


**p.s i just realized your E7 tuning you have the high D too ? I go(High to low) E,B,G#,E,D etc.. this gives 2 different voicings of the basic chords by using 1,2,3 or 2,3,4 ... you should maybe try that to see if you like it better.

[Steve Lipsey]

Gabriel -
All of the above advice is fine, but there is no need to get pushed to a 6th tuning just to get fancy chords. I used C6 for a long time, then E7 and E13, and now I'm in open-G Dobro tuning, and I'm not missing the 6th tuning at all.

For solo work a 6th tuning gives you more options, but if you are playing with anyone else, it is easy - they are playing the other notes of the chord, so you don't have to. The bass player is probably on the root....the guitar player is playing the whole thing....etc.

And in fact, it can sound boring to play the whole chord all the time...a choice two note chord adds a bit of flavor to what the rest of the band is playing, and you get to decide what to emphasize. And whether to add a 7th or 9th or whatever, as one of those notes, to make it even more interesting.

Discovering 2-note chords is a real breakthrough - once you've gone there, you will love it. It took me a long while, coming from strumming big chords on a guitar....but now the beauty of GBDGBD has me really happy....many, many tasty chord fragments in there to drop into the mix...

[Niels Andrews]

I agree with Steve, I thought my Open G tuning was lacking since I am used to playing a B6/E9 on my PSG. Playing solo I was wanting fuller chords. When I started playing with other instruments it was enjoyable to work on intonation and flavor using two note minors. It really works and sounds great. Worry less on what you see, and enjoy what you hear, I don't think the tuning is that significant. Mike had a point about trying to apply "spanish guitar knowledge", forget it new animal different day. Let the rhythm guitar and bass carry the load.

[George Rout]

Well, for my two cents from the dark ages in A Major and E (E7) tunings, I agree that minor chords have been a long time topic of conversation.

When I'm playing with somebody, and most of us know that the steel guitar is not a chording instrument, I sometimes even use just the single note for the minor chord and let the accompanyist play the full minor chord. As long as your accompaniment plays the minor chord, all is well. You can get two note minor chords all over the place in the A & E Major tunings.

Geo

[George Rout]

He Neils, you beat me to it by about two minutes!!!
Geo

[Niels Andrews]

Great minds think alike.

[Steve Lipsey]

And the thing to really be aware of is that you hardly ever just play a chord and sit there....the beauty of lap (and pedal) steel is the space between the chords....the leading transitions you play to get from one chord to another...often using the 2-note harmonized scales (intervals of 6th or 3rds, depending on how you look at it). Or a melodic riff, or an arpeggio, or just different inversions of the same chord....etc.

[Steve Lipsey]

Actually, if you are going to be looking for tablature to learn songs.....C6 is the way to go. Most of the tab is written for it....and it sure isn't a bad tuning! In fact, it is probably the standard for a good reason....I was just saying that your reason for picking it - just to do minor chords - might not have been fully informed...