Problem setting up my double stop pedal (RKR)...

Benjamin Wolfram · Post by **Benjamin Wolfram** » 23 Feb 2013 8:43 pm

Okay I've got a Rittenberry S10 setup for E9, and I think as of late I understand how more of the bits underneath work and get set up (especially after one of the bell cranks actually came loose and fell off at last night's gig when setting up)...well I put that bell crank back on and went over the rest of them with an allen key, but I still have an issue.

My right knee lever right is set up like a standard Emmons E9 guitar, it's got a double stop on the high D# lowering it to a D then a C#, and on the low D it lowers it to a C#. Basically I can't seem to get the low D to lower enough to get to the C#, it gets close but not quite there, and after a bit of winding on the tuning nut it just stops lowering it all together even if I wind it in heaps, it will not lower any more and I don't understand why. All the other strings will keep lowering if I keep winding, I'm thinking it has something to do with the whole "double stop" thing but I'm not sure how to set up that bit as opposed to just setting them up as normal.

I think I've figured out that the amount the tuning nut is wound in on the low D dictates the double stop point of the higher D# string (down to the D), but then why can't I seem to get the lower D to lower correctly.

I'm sure there's something here I'm not understanding properly, so hopefully someone will be able to fill me in.

richard burton · Post by **richard burton** » 23 Feb 2013 10:42 pm

Take a look at the back of the changer, near the top.

There is a row of setscrews (grubscrews) which control the lowers (arrowed in the photo)

The ninth one probably needs to be backed out a bit.

Benjamin Wolfram · Post by **Benjamin Wolfram** » 23 Feb 2013 11:31 pm

Ahh I did not know about this, I just tried to tweak the one on the low D and I don't have the correct Allen key...something else I noticed though is that there is another grub screw but its not on the high D#, it's on a string which doesn't lower at all, is that right or are these grub screws what facilitates the "double stop" mechanism and there should be one on each string affected by the double stop lever?

richard burton · Post by **richard burton** » 24 Feb 2013 1:22 am

The screws are to facilitate split-tuning

Jerry Jones · Post by **Jerry Jones** » 24 Feb 2013 4:48 am

This from the Zum manual.....probably similar:

Feel Stop
The Feel Stop on the 2nd string, (D#), of the E-9th tuning is adjusted as follows:
1. Tune the string open, with the Tuning Key as described in the basic procedure.
2. Tune the full tone lower change, (D# to C#), with the respective Nylon Hex Nut.
3. Tune the half tone lower “feel” by adjusting the Red Nylon Hex Nut that lowers the 9th string,
(D). This nut should be adjusted to make contact with the 9th string Changer Finger when
the 2nd string reaches its half tone change, (D# to D).
4. With the knee lever fully engaged, the 9th string will undoubtably be slightly off from where it
should be, C#. Correct this by adjusting the Set Screw in the end of the neck, right side, behind the 9th string Changer Finger.

CrowBear Schmitt · Post by **CrowBear Schmitt** » 24 Feb 2013 10:32 am

Benjamin, looks like Jerry's reply from the Zum manual explains the phenomena well

1 - string 2 to C# usually gets tuned w: the 2nd string nylon tuner
2 - the D "feel or half " stop (Eb to D ) is tuned on string 9 w: the odd colored tuner

make sure you have enough travel on the rod
you might have to try another notch on the bellcrank ?
( just a note/check )

Jerry Jones · Post by **Jerry Jones** » 24 Feb 2013 11:01 am

I've noticed that very few manufactures offer any kind of PDF manual online, so these questions continue to pop up all the time. It can be confusing, but these issues have been covered many times in previous threads. Maybe a general reference guide would be helpful........tuning feel stops and splits, setting up tuning compensators, explaining return compensators, etc.....where's Carl?

Benjamin Wolfram · Post by **Benjamin Wolfram** » 24 Feb 2013 12:21 pm

That is what I needed thank you, and yes I've been using steelguitar.com to learn all about my steel lately but it didn't have this little nugget anywhere. I figure it would be a useful addition to the website, unless it's somewhere I haven't found yet.

I figured it worked something like that, although if we're talking about a Zum step 3 in that post talks about a "red" nylon hex nut...are there different color nylon hex nuts on a Zum that do different things or are they all red? The Rittenberry only has one color hex nuts at the changer end.

This makes sense to me, but just wondering now how come I have another set screw in the changer which seems to be sitting against a string which doesn't lower at all. Is this just a spare set screw which is sitting there for safe keeping just in case I want to set up another double stop?

CrowBear Schmitt · Post by **CrowBear Schmitt** » 24 Feb 2013 3:35 pm

Zum uses a red tuner for that half tone lower to D on st 9
other builders don't necessarily do the same as Z

some builders like Carter use a 2nd rod for the "feel/half stop "instead of the red 9th string tuner

on what string is that " set screw " Ben ?

Benjamin Wolfram · Post by **Benjamin Wolfram** » 24 Feb 2013 7:35 pm

I'm not at home right now but I'll check tonight, from memory it's sitting on the 5th or 6th string.

Benjamin Wolfram · Post by **Benjamin Wolfram** » 25 Feb 2013 2:15 pm

Yep the extra grub screw is on the 6th string, but I don't think that string is set up to lower, although looking at my little chart showing the Emmons tuning it looks like it should be set to lower a whole tone from G# to F#...hmmmm I will investigate further.

Jerry Jones · Post by **Jerry Jones** » 25 Feb 2013 2:51 pm

Most all modern guitars are drilled and taped for set screws behind each string allowing splits for whichever strings you may choose. Some guitars come with screws installed in each hole (10) while others only have screws installed for the most likely strings to be split. My Zum came with screws in 5,6,9, and 10. If you're not using splits, make sure unused set screws aren't interfering with your lowers.