Sho-Bud rack & barrel tuning problem
Moderator: Shoshanah Marohn
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Tim Bridges
- Posts: 965
- Joined: 18 Oct 2002 12:01 am
- Location: Hoover, Alabama, USA
Sho-Bud rack & barrel tuning problem
For some crazy reason, the 4th string (E lower) knee lever will not drop adequately. When I try to adjust the rod, the finger will ultimately start pulling out before it will lower to the Eb. I have adjusted the stop, the barrel, you name it (hopefully you will). I'm just about to take the chain saw to this "$%&^@#(!" guitar. Need help and need it soon or we're gonna have a pig roast. Could it be as simple as needing a new barrel? Thanks in advance.
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Ricky Davis
- Posts: 10964
- Joined: 4 Aug 1998 11:00 pm
- Location: Bertram, Texas USA
- Contact:
Tim...Do this process pal...
Loosen the barrel....take out the rod..get the barrel in your hand and unscrew it to almost off...than screw it back in about halfway..so you have pleanty of spring to go backwards or forward between the two parts> oh and make sure there is the Little piece of spring sticking out of the small end of the barrel> and if not...than you will need a new Barrel.
Clean the rod..........take the raise spring off the 4th string changer finger(the little spring against the underside body of the guitar)..Loosen the 8th string lower barrel also..
Loosen the C6th C to B lower if it's on the same knee..
Ok now put the 4th string rod back in and barrel on end of rod. Now push the knee lever so that it is all the way Un-enguaged.....Now push all barrels up against the racks....and tighten set screw on barrels....Ok Your good to go...now just a small adjustment for tuning...oh and then put the raise spring back on bracket..
Have fun...and e-mail me for my phone number if this doesn't work...so I can ask you some questions about the underneath of your guitar.
This is what I do during the day> I re-do Old ShoBuds....and every one of them when they leave my house....will play as well as any Brand new guitar out there....I stake my new set of Tommy Armour 845 irons on that...ha.
And Al is right...this system will play great if adjusted properly...and for those that aren't sure WHY the barrel de-tunes itself while they play....e-mail me and I'll tell you the secret.
sshawaiian@aol.com
Ricky
Loosen the barrel....take out the rod..get the barrel in your hand and unscrew it to almost off...than screw it back in about halfway..so you have pleanty of spring to go backwards or forward between the two parts> oh and make sure there is the Little piece of spring sticking out of the small end of the barrel> and if not...than you will need a new Barrel.
Clean the rod..........take the raise spring off the 4th string changer finger(the little spring against the underside body of the guitar)..Loosen the 8th string lower barrel also..
Loosen the C6th C to B lower if it's on the same knee..
Ok now put the 4th string rod back in and barrel on end of rod. Now push the knee lever so that it is all the way Un-enguaged.....Now push all barrels up against the racks....and tighten set screw on barrels....Ok Your good to go...now just a small adjustment for tuning...oh and then put the raise spring back on bracket..
Have fun...and e-mail me for my phone number if this doesn't work...so I can ask you some questions about the underneath of your guitar.
This is what I do during the day> I re-do Old ShoBuds....and every one of them when they leave my house....will play as well as any Brand new guitar out there....I stake my new set of Tommy Armour 845 irons on that...ha.
And Al is right...this system will play great if adjusted properly...and for those that aren't sure WHY the barrel de-tunes itself while they play....e-mail me and I'll tell you the secret.
sshawaiian@aol.com
Ricky
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Tony Prior
- Posts: 14522
- Joined: 17 Oct 2001 12:01 am
- Location: Charlotte NC
- Contact:
What Ricky said..
My old Professional D10 was the victim of ez'ackly what your are experiencing.
The only thing that I did different was to remove all the of rods and brass barrels, clean 'em up , lubricate all of the barrels, set them all to midpoint, lube the changer then put it all back together.
It was an all day affair
It played as well as it sounded but it didn't get any lighter..
tp
My old Professional D10 was the victim of ez'ackly what your are experiencing.
The only thing that I did different was to remove all the of rods and brass barrels, clean 'em up , lubricate all of the barrels, set them all to midpoint, lube the changer then put it all back together.
It was an all day affair
It played as well as it sounded but it didn't get any lighter..
tp
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Tim Bridges
- Posts: 965
- Joined: 18 Oct 2002 12:01 am
- Location: Hoover, Alabama, USA
Hey guys, thanks for your help! Another lesson or two learned here. One thing is for sure, the ol' Bud is cleaner than its ever been and has really improved the action. It turned out to be that I needed to increase the tension on the helper spring. The finger kept pulling out every time I attempted to tune the 4th string lower to Eb. Well, what took me about 2 minutes to rectify the problem actually took me several hours to figure out. Ricky, I'd love to talk to you about the staying in tune issues you offered regarding the Professional. My email is TBridges@soleninc.com. I do love this guitar and the way it sounds. I don't care much for the weight and some of these mechanical issues, but I guess it will get easier as I learn more about this guitar. Thanks again everyone.
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Kevin Hatton
- Posts: 8173
- Joined: 3 Jan 2002 1:01 am
- Location: Buffalo, N.Y.
- Contact:
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Tim Bridges
- Posts: 965
- Joined: 18 Oct 2002 12:01 am
- Location: Hoover, Alabama, USA
Kevin, if you think his comment above was a BRAVO, you should see the email Ricky me. Not only is he extremely generous and kind with his time provided to all of us, but he is apparently one of the few gurus on the Sho Bud D-10 Professional; not to say on other PSG as well. If I new how to take the email he sent me and drag it over to post on the forum, I would do so. Thanks Ricky!!!
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Ricky Davis
- Posts: 10964
- Joined: 4 Aug 1998 11:00 pm
- Location: Bertram, Texas USA
- Contact:
OH you mean this one....ah..ha 
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Here is what I just sent Winnie Winston that had the same question...
Have fun.
----------------------------
"Hi Mr. Winston thanks for writing.
There are several reasons that I've run into and worked through to get these 24" scale Rack and Barrel Shobuds to play in tune.
First of all...it is so important that the string guages are right for the moving of the particular note(s); especially the unison notes...because you can't move the pulls up and down on a pull finger to get them to move at the same time like on other steels.
Secondly...the barrels have to be good. The spring in the middle as to move freely so it doesn't bind and there has to be a little bit of the spring sticking out of the small end that hits the rack.
Thirdly..ha...the changer fingers(raise and lower) have a slot in them and they fit into metal piece at the end plate...and those metal pieces have to be polished and smooth for those fingers to move perfectly and of course the three pivot points to the fingers have to be gunk free and lightly lubed; and the rods have to move straight through all the rack holes and smooth too.....ok so all that is to create zero binding anywhere...or otherwise your chasing the barrels all gig long.
Now the barrels have to be against(slightly touching) the racks at all time; even when the pedal and/or knee lever is NOT enguaged.....so that when you do enguage and unengauge...it won't sling the barrel back and de-tune it.
So in order to do that...the stops have to be timed for the pull....and some guys like a little slack in the pedal or knee change....and therefore have the slack between the barrel and the Rack...and that is a problem...and you don't need that much slack because there is an inharent slack because of the axles of the Rack..that kinda move first before the actual rack starts moving....and to me ......"that is enough".
Talking about the E9th neck and the guages.....these are the most perfect tension and balance between all tones that move in and out and/or together on a 24" scale.
.013p
.015p
.012p
.014p
.018p
.022w
.026w
.030w
.034w
.038w
Winnie; I played that ShoBud Professional Again tonight....and I can guarrentee you(Like Lloyd Green told me once when I was at his house)...nobody stomps and plays the steel as hard as I do...on the pedals and knees...ha.....and Nothing de-tuned all night...and I am HIGHLY particular about the changes and tuning being perfect for my ears and intonation.......so I am very very happy that these years and years of studying and working with all these ShoBuds....that it's paying off.
I know that sounds kinda over-confident and I don't mean it that way...but I get sooooo happy when I can succeed in a goal........and I'm doing it my Brother....cause I want history to stay alive and nobody loves the history of the ShoBud more than myself....ah...ha....we'll there are a few other nuts out there like me...ha...LOL
I'm sorry this was longish.....but you did ask....ha....and there is more...but me fingers hurt..ha.
Thanks my Brother....and I gotta tell ya......You are one of the reasons I play Pedal Steel my friend and thank you for all you do and have done for the Steel guitar."
-----------------------------------------
Hope that helps Tim...and let me know how ya do pal..
Ricky
------------------------------
Here is what I just sent Winnie Winston that had the same question...
Have fun.
----------------------------
"Hi Mr. Winston thanks for writing.
There are several reasons that I've run into and worked through to get these 24" scale Rack and Barrel Shobuds to play in tune.
First of all...it is so important that the string guages are right for the moving of the particular note(s); especially the unison notes...because you can't move the pulls up and down on a pull finger to get them to move at the same time like on other steels.
Secondly...the barrels have to be good. The spring in the middle as to move freely so it doesn't bind and there has to be a little bit of the spring sticking out of the small end that hits the rack.
Thirdly..ha...the changer fingers(raise and lower) have a slot in them and they fit into metal piece at the end plate...and those metal pieces have to be polished and smooth for those fingers to move perfectly and of course the three pivot points to the fingers have to be gunk free and lightly lubed; and the rods have to move straight through all the rack holes and smooth too.....ok so all that is to create zero binding anywhere...or otherwise your chasing the barrels all gig long.
Now the barrels have to be against(slightly touching) the racks at all time; even when the pedal and/or knee lever is NOT enguaged.....so that when you do enguage and unengauge...it won't sling the barrel back and de-tune it.
So in order to do that...the stops have to be timed for the pull....and some guys like a little slack in the pedal or knee change....and therefore have the slack between the barrel and the Rack...and that is a problem...and you don't need that much slack because there is an inharent slack because of the axles of the Rack..that kinda move first before the actual rack starts moving....and to me ......"that is enough".
Talking about the E9th neck and the guages.....these are the most perfect tension and balance between all tones that move in and out and/or together on a 24" scale.
.013p
.015p
.012p
.014p
.018p
.022w
.026w
.030w
.034w
.038w
Winnie; I played that ShoBud Professional Again tonight....and I can guarrentee you(Like Lloyd Green told me once when I was at his house)...nobody stomps and plays the steel as hard as I do...on the pedals and knees...ha.....and Nothing de-tuned all night...and I am HIGHLY particular about the changes and tuning being perfect for my ears and intonation.......so I am very very happy that these years and years of studying and working with all these ShoBuds....that it's paying off.
I know that sounds kinda over-confident and I don't mean it that way...but I get sooooo happy when I can succeed in a goal........and I'm doing it my Brother....cause I want history to stay alive and nobody loves the history of the ShoBud more than myself....ah...ha....we'll there are a few other nuts out there like me...ha...LOL
I'm sorry this was longish.....but you did ask....ha....and there is more...but me fingers hurt..ha.
Thanks my Brother....and I gotta tell ya......You are one of the reasons I play Pedal Steel my friend and thank you for all you do and have done for the Steel guitar."
-----------------------------------------
Hope that helps Tim...and let me know how ya do pal..
Ricky