What, Exactly, Is Cabinet Drop??

Jon Miller · Post by **Jon Miller** » 8 Feb 2003 3:40 am

I'd like to know more about this issue and what can be done about it. What causes it and what Guitars have the most problems w/it. Thanks....Jon

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C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 8 Feb 2003 8:14 am

Jon,

The term "cabinet drop" is used whenever a NON pulled string goes flat when any OTHER string or strings is/are raised. An example is the 6th string on E9th. When the A pedal is engaged the 6th string will go slightly flat on most PSG's. Some guitars do it more than others. The same thing happens on the 4th string when the A and/or B pedal is engaged. And so on.

Three guitar manufacturers that I know of; have come up with modifications to cure it. They are the Emmons LeGrande III, the new Excel SuperB models and the Remington PSG. I have not had a chance to test it out on the Excel or the Remington. I can state without any hesitation that the Emmons LeGrande III stops it dead on.

That is, when properly adjusted, there is ZERO cabinet drop USING a needle type tuner as a test.

Several PSG's are proported not to have ANY cabinet drop. I have heard this about the Anapeg, the Carter and the new MSA Millenium. I have also heard it said about the old Fender PSG's. I cannot attest to the validity of these claims.

Incidently, "cabinet drop" is thought by some to be a result of the pedals pulling DOWN on the cabinet thus bowing it and causing the distance from the changer to the nut to be shortened. Which causes the problem.

While this seems reasonable and I am sure some of the problem may be due to this, NOT all of it is. And in some cases not ANY of it is. I have personally proven this. A test of this is to simply engage the F knee lever and watch the 6th string. If it drops, it can not be a result of a pedal pulling DOWN on the cabinet.

So there are theories upon theories of what is causing it. NONE to my knowledge have been proven. We only know that the problem DOES exist and it is worse on some PSG's than others.

A quick fix on the 6th string dropping is to add a raise rod to the A pedal. And pull it back up. Some players do this. But most simply live with it.

There is the opposite problem which is rarely mentioned. That is "cabinet raise". An example involves the 6th string again; when the E lever (lowering the E's) is engaged. This string will now raise slightly. So the question is,

"Is the cabinet raising in this case?" Interesting.

The late Ron Lashley told me on two different ocassions, "

"There is MORE than one cause for so-called cabinet drop. I KNOW what is causing it. I designed the LeGrande III to cure it. And it does".

And he was 100% correct. But he would never tell me what it was that was really causing it. Some say it is the axle flexing. Ron said that on his first Legrande, "the axle was supported between EACH changer finger, and it did NOTHING to help cabinet drop".

So go figure

God bless you Jon, and all the rest of you,

carl

Ray Montee · Post by **Ray Montee** » 8 Feb 2003 10:27 am

Thanks again Carl.........(Seriously!)

I look forward to each and everyone of your wonderful posts and detailed educational explanations. Thank goodness we on the Forum have you and many others on which to rely for valuable insites.

All these years, I was lead to believe by the local experts that cabinet drop was when you let the sucker slip out of your hands while standing on the tailgate of one's pick-em up truck. Another learning experience so late in coming.

Reggie Duncan · Post by **Reggie Duncan** » 8 Feb 2003 12:04 pm

Cabinet what?

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 8 Feb 2003 12:42 pm

Robert Thomas · Post by **Robert Thomas** » 9 Feb 2003 5:02 am

I didn't know what cabinet drop was and now I do know. I own an HWP Mullen D10, 8 + 4. Bought new from Herby Wallace. I just sat down with my chromatic meter and tested my PSG for cabinet drop. None whatsoever. I must have a very finely built PSG. Thanks to Herby and Del Mullen.

Bob Knight · Post by **Bob Knight** » 9 Feb 2003 5:42 am

John,
There are 3 parts to your question. The answers are: Get rid of your electronic tuner, Electronic tuners, Any using an electronic tuner.

Robert Thomas,
Your chromatic tuner is NOT functioning correctly.

This is only my take after 50 years of casual observance.

Bob

Robert Thomas · Post by **Robert Thomas** » 9 Feb 2003 7:20 am

Bob Knight, sorry to disagree on all points and I have been at it for 53 years, and still going strong. If I check for cabinet drop using all the other methods for tuning, there is still no evidence of cabinet drop. Where do we go from here? My HWP Mullen does not have what so many others claim having a problem with called cabinet drop. Maybe Mullen and HWP have a secret formula for construction. Quality?

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 9 Feb 2003 7:43 am

Robert,

Curious minds want to know? Are you saying that your 6th string on E9th does not drop one bit (on your needle type tuner), when you engage your A pedal? How bout it raising when you engage your E to Eb lever?

Thanks,

carl

Bob Knight · Post by **Bob Knight** » 9 Feb 2003 11:15 am

Could be a miracle Carl, OR we could have been dreaming all these years.

Robert,
I'm not argueing with you, just stating personal experience as a repairman, dealer, builder, and wannabe player.

[This message was edited by Bob Knight on 09 February 2003 at 11:27 AM.]

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 9 Feb 2003 11:44 am

Oh Bob,

In NO way was I doubting you. I respect you too much for that. I just want to know. IF a Mullen does not have any cabinet drop, it is great and unusual. I could not be happier for you. I have never owned a PSG that did not have it. I take that back, when I had my Fender 400, I did not know a "cabinet drop" from an eskimo igloo. (Some say I still don't). I have been told the Fenders had Zero cabinet drop. I have not a clue.

I atill would like to know if a needle type tuner put on your guitar and pick the 6th string, does NOT move when you engage the A pedal. If that is correct and I again I do not doubt you, then Del knows something few others do.

Take care friend,

carl

Lee Baucum · Post by **Lee Baucum** » 9 Feb 2003 12:10 pm

Carl - I play a Mullen U-12. I believe Del built it for me in 1998. When I press just the "A" pedal, the 6th string drops almost 4 cents. The 4th string drops about a penny. When I press both the "A" and "B" pedals, the 4th string drops almost 3 cents.

I can live with those numbers.

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Lee, from South Texas
Down On The Rio Grande

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 9 Feb 2003 12:17 pm

Jon, what many of these players are saying is that it (cabinet drop) is a very insignificant problem, and I am inclined to agree with them.

Worry about the more significant things.

Jon Miller · Post by **Jon Miller** » 9 Feb 2003 1:42 pm

My thanks to all of y'all. I'm never disappointed in these threads. Always have some good folks who are so willing to give a fella a hand and offer their wisdom in such things. I appreciate you all..Jon

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[This message was edited by Jon Miller on 09 February 2003 at 01:43 PM.]

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 9 Feb 2003 2:11 pm

I just sold two Mullen. I found that the E's did't drop hardly 1 cent with A & B pedals pushed, but you do get your standard 2-3 cent drop on the 6th string with the A pedal pushed. By comparison I have an LDG with almost 3 cent drop on the E's and a solid 3 on the sixth string. All in all I found Mullen to be more stable than some of the other guitars I've checked. I think Carl is right when he says that most all guitars will experience some drop on the 6th string.

Robert Thomas · Post by **Robert Thomas** » 9 Feb 2003 3:10 pm

HI C. Dixon
When I use the E to Eb lever, there is no change whatsoever, up or down. I use and have been using an Arion HU-8400 Micon Chromatic Tuner for 25 years prox.
I set up and tear down my Mullen steel 4 and 5 times a week. Usually there is never any change in the tunings even though I still check just to make sure. The only time I need to check the tuning on my pedals and knees is when I change strings or break a string. I have never been happier with my HWP Mullen PSG.

Robert Thomas · Post by **Robert Thomas** » 9 Feb 2003 5:32 pm

Hi everyone, I would like to add one more thing concerning cabinet drop as you all refer to it. The PSG that I use is manufactured to Herby Wallace specifications and has been for a number of years now. The PSG that Del Mullen builds for sale from him is different, so maybe that accounts for the lack of cabinet drop. I certainly am not an expert, but I do not have a problem with cabinet drop. I have only owned 2 PSG's in the years I have been playing a PSG. My first one was a Professional Sho-bud, D-10, 8 + 4. I purchased it new and played it for 27 years. I then went to an HWP Mullen. I have never been more happy and wouldn't even consider anything else. If I have offended anyone, please accept my apology, I am not into arguing. My first steel guitar back in 1946 was an open holed, six string guitar and believe it or not I didn't have any problem with cabinat drop back there either. Now I am trying to be funny!
Keep making beautiful steel music. all of you.