14-strings

Ricky Littleton · Post by **Ricky Littleton** » 27 Jan 2003 7:21 am

Who all currently makes 14's? My guess is Sierra, but am wondering. I feel the first few pangs of the need to buy a new axe and am seriously looking at a 14. Also, what are the general thoughts on 14 string guitars.

Any input is greatly appreciated.

Ricky

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Emmons LeGrande - 8x4
Session 400 Ltd
Dan-Echo, E-Bow, Ibanez Distortion, Boss Comp./Sustain, Ibanez Auto-Wah

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 27 Jan 2003 7:26 am

Excel and Anapeg both manufacture 14 stringers.

carl

Michael Johnstone · Post by **Michael Johnstone** » 27 Jan 2003 9:28 am

I looked long and hard at a 14 string tuning when I switched to my Sierra universal after 22 years on a D-10. I spent months devising the ultimate tuning for the way my particular mind works and how it had been conditioned by all those years on a D-10.I decided that the 12 string universal as it sits is pretty complete and that if one was going to add 2 extra strings they would have to be in the middle somewhere.This is because you can't go higher than G# because of string guage/breakage issues and why go lower than the low root you already have on the B6 tuning.I decided then that adding strings in the middle somewhere like maybe a D,C# or A would just disrupt all my well ingrained string grips and sweeps and cause the adjustment curve of switching from a D-10 to a universal all that much steeper.Another issue is the limited selection of pickups for a 14-stringer.Having said all that,you might want to look up Julian Tharpe's 14 string E6/9 tuning - it made sense and was an "add extra strings in the middle" approach.I would add to the list of companies that will build you a 14-stringer - Williams,Fessenden,Fulawka,there are a few old Klines,Sho-Buds and BMIs floating around and I have an old Zum catalog offering a 14-stringer. -MJ-

Al Marcus · Post by **Al Marcus** » 27 Jan 2003 9:39 am

You might listen to what Bill Stafford does so well with his Excel 14 stringer. He get a lot of Music out of that beast.

But as for me, Michael and many other players, 12 strings is enough to handle, and easier to get in the market place.....al

[This message was edited by Al Marcus on 27 January 2003 at 09:40 AM.]

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 27 Jan 2003 9:56 am

Indeed, Bill Stafford is an absolute master at the 14 string Universal. He is as smooth as silk. It is simply awesome to see him effortlessly seek those changes and grips he wants at any given instant.

And for his playing, a 14 string is a must. He is truly "Mr Smooth". A justly deserved title.

But I will have to agree that for most 14 or even 12 is too many. I love the 12. I don't think I could ever get used to 14. But who knows, I have never tried it. I am so thorougly satisfied with the 12, there is NO way I would ever go back to a D-10.

But, I have to say, that is because my universal set up is NOT the standard. If it were I would not be playing it.

I do not see the D-10 being replaced (as the most popular PSG) in a long long time. Maybe, I just don't see it.

May Jesus bring you much joy, NO matter what you play,

carl

ed packard · Post by **ed packard** » 27 Jan 2003 10:38 am

Ricky, ..what do you play now re tuning? What you get for a setup should reflect both what you need and where you want to go.

Universals are not "Universal", ..there are several approaches, and several keys. I like 14 strings as it allows for a wider frequency range (think keyboard left hand), and chord structures that cannot be had with 10s and 12s, either some form of universal or the more or less standard E9/C6/A6/B6 tunings. Do you need all that?, ..maybe not, but you cannot play what you don't have.

Bill Staffords approach, probably because he started playing on lap steel, and grew with the multinecks thru 7,8,10,and 12 strings, then with pedals etc, and designed his own 14 string approach, uses a second G# on top, raises the B to D in the middle via RLR, and has a low E on the bottom. Bill uses a lok to anchor in the C6(B6)tuning. This allows having one neck that you can think about and play as either 1 or 2 necks E9 or B6. He can keep the grips learned re E9 and C6 from the double neck 10s and 12s that he has passed thru.

Joe Wright uses a 12 string E9/B6 without the lok. David Wright uses a 12 string Bb6 as I recall. He comes from the Maurice Anderson camp.

I use a 14 string that might be losely called E69-B69-A6-plus the 13 series tunings (necks), ..all those tunings are on the instrument. To do this I add a C# as string 12.

If you are interested, email me and I will send you the co-pedant/setup that I use.

I had mine made by Sierra using the Session series hardware. Excel in Japan makes a good one, ..a number of other companies will probably make you a 14, but it might not be part of their "common" product line.

Edp

Ricky Littleton · Post by **Ricky Littleton** » 28 Jan 2003 1:02 am

Right now I'm using my D-10 LeGrande 8x4. I want to add 2 verticals to it. I have Ralph Mooney's E9 on the back just to play around with, but my front E9 is pretty standard with 3x4 working on it and the 2 extra verticals would be for it. I want another guitar as a second guitar but at the same time want something that I can expand in new directions with.

I've been looking at a few different 14 tunings, including Tharpe's and Winnie Winston's 14 string universal. I have also been experimenting on paper with a tuning of my own, but am still in the concept stage.

I really appreciate all the inputs.

Thanks,

Ricky

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Emmons LeGrande - 8x4
Session 400 Ltd
Dan-Echo, E-Bow, Ibanez Distortion, Boss Comp./Sustain, Ibanez Auto-Wah

[This message was edited by Ricky Littleton on 28 January 2003 at 01:35 AM.]

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 28 Jan 2003 7:20 am

Williams makes a 14 string keyless.

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/b0b.gif" width="64" height="64">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (C6add9), Sierra Laptop 8 (D13), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6), Roland Handsonic, Line6 Variax (coming soon)

Hal Higgins · Post by **Hal Higgins** » 28 Jan 2003 2:42 pm

I've had the privilege of sitting down behind Bill's 14 string Excel, and "trying" to play it....once you find out what does what, it's not too bad....but for someone who's so used to a D-10 axe....it would take me awhile to get even close to mastering it. But you are right, Mr. C. Dixon, Bill Stafford is definitely a master on the 14 String. There's no one that I know of that can come close to "Mr. Smooth". A finer built guitar for that purpose I don't think can be had, either....Go for an Excel, you'll not be disappointed, it handles and performs very well. Just listen, again, to Bill Stafford...."Mr. Smooth", no doubt.

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Be Blessed........HAL
'85 Emmons LeGrande D-10, Rack w/Evans, Tubefex 2, 1501-4 BW's

Eugene Cole · Post by **Eugene Cole** » 1 Feb 2003 10:05 am

I started out on a D10 MSA. Since that time I have purchased and then sold 2 U12's an Remington and and MSA. I liked the attributes of the Universal tuning but wanted to extend the range down further and have a bit more room to experiment with. So I recently purchased a used Sierra U14. Through a series of random events I am in the process of trading my recently acquired U14 for another used U14 that is instead keyless and has a pad that my first U14 did not. Someone really wanted my Pad-Less U14 so we arranged a trade.

I have really just begun my trek down the 14 string path.

My desire is end up with C9/G6 Univeral tuning. This is based on the standard U14 Sierra setup but is tuned 2 full steps down. The significant deviation is that the standard string 1 is deleted from the setup, strings 2 to 13 become strings 1 to 12. The note of the deleted string 1 gets moved to string 13 and is tuned 3 octaves lower than it was.

The open tuning will tentatively look like this.
D#
B
F
C (B with lock or LKR)
G#
F
D#
C (B with lock or LKR)
G#
F
C
G#
F (atypical string in terms of intervals)
C

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Regards
-- Eugene@FJ45.com

[This message was edited by Eugene Cole on 01 February 2003 at 10:15 PM.][This message was edited by Eugene Cole on 01 February 2003 at 10:25 PM.][This message was edited by Eugene Cole on 05 February 2003 at 02:08 PM.]

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 1 Feb 2003 11:52 am

Whoa! That's 16 strings, Eugene. What is the root note of that tuning?

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/b0b.gif" width="64" height="64">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (C6add9), Sierra Laptop 8 (D13), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6), Roland Handsonic, Line6 Variax (coming soon)

Eugene Cole · Post by **Eugene Cole** » 1 Feb 2003 10:27 pm

Sorry Bobbie. I made corrections and it should now be clearer.

The root note is C, or with the lock actvated the root is G.

So far the only thing about the 14 string I really dislike is the cost of those big strings. Ouch! [This message was edited by Eugene Cole on 01 February 2003 at 10:33 PM.][This message was edited by Eugene Cole on 01 February 2003 at 10:37 PM.]

Mac Bellingrath · Post by **Mac Bellingrath** » 2 Feb 2003 4:42 am

I saw in Ricky Littleton's post a mention of Julian Tharpe's copedent. Can someone tell me where I can see that?

Bill Stafford · Post by **Bill Stafford** » 3 Feb 2003 5:02 am

Go see Ed Packard.
Julian told me he calls his tuning E69.
First seven strings tuned to E9, bottom seven tuned to E6. And he sometimes called it E96 from the top down. ("Top" being the little string). I was at Sierra when we built Julian's 14 string unit. The guitar played extremely easy as the changes installed did not "load" up any of the mechanical linkages thus allowing very fast response to any and all of his changes. That was his approach and we all know the wonderful results Julian gave the musical world. And if you were ever fortunate enough to have heard, and especially seen, him play "Danny Boy" on just one fret-all the way through- with all those beautiful and full passing chords, you would never get over the amazement of Julian Tharpe. He is missed.
Bill Stafford

Eugene Cole · Post by **Eugene Cole** » 5 Feb 2003 2:05 pm

Those S14 guitars are going cheap.

This one on eBay is currently at $107.50: of course it might go higher before it sells.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2505997225

Try it you might like it.

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Regards
-- Eugene@FJ45.com

[This message was edited by Eugene Cole on 05 February 2003 at 02:09 PM.]