2nd String Eb to E
Moderator: Shoshanah Marohn
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Allan Thompson
- Posts: 789
- Joined: 23 Jan 2001 1:01 am
- Location: Scotland.
2nd String Eb to E
I`m thinking of raising my second string to E on the knee lever that lowers my sixth string a whole tone RKL. Any of you guys out there do this and how do you find it. One other point I do not raise or lower my first string and only lower my second string a half tone.
Yes, some do raise their 2nd string to an E with a knee lever. And some do couple this with the lowering of the 6th string a whole tone.
But most 'opt to raise the first string a whole tone with the 6th string lower. However, I suspect that as time goes on, more and more will raise the 1st string a whole tone AND the 2nd string a half tone along with lowering the 6th string a whole tone. In fact I will go out on a limb and state it WILL be standard in the not too distant future.
I ordered my U-12 with this very thing. I have since taken it off; for three reasons:
1. The knee lever was just too stiff for my tastes.
2. Because I use the 6th string lower soooooooo much (mostly for splitting), it was putting undue stress on the 1st string. And even with a changer that does NOT break strings, this was exceeding the mechanical limits of this string and simply asking too much from it.
3. Coupling these changes with the 6th string whole tone lower (and 10th string whole tone lower (on my U-12), messes up the chord on the first two strings.
Buddy Emmons splits these two changes. That is, he puts one on the knee lever above and the other one he puts on a pedal. I forgot just which one does what. I am sure its on Ernie Renn's Website, but I am too lazy to look it up
I will raise 1 a whole tone, raise 2 a half tone AND raise 7 a whole tone on a separate lever soon. All of these changes are musically necessary. Time will show this exceedingly to most players I predict. Players like PF and BE have such incredible ears, they hear these sounds in their heads often before they install the change on their guitars.
Which contrasts sharply (in most cases) with the way most players do. But then Buddy and Paul are not most players. This is of course why they have acheieved such awesome status in the steel guitar world. In a word, it is why they are where they are.
May God richly bless Paul Franklin, Buddy Emmons and all of you,
carl
But most 'opt to raise the first string a whole tone with the 6th string lower. However, I suspect that as time goes on, more and more will raise the 1st string a whole tone AND the 2nd string a half tone along with lowering the 6th string a whole tone. In fact I will go out on a limb and state it WILL be standard in the not too distant future.
I ordered my U-12 with this very thing. I have since taken it off; for three reasons:
1. The knee lever was just too stiff for my tastes.
2. Because I use the 6th string lower soooooooo much (mostly for splitting), it was putting undue stress on the 1st string. And even with a changer that does NOT break strings, this was exceeding the mechanical limits of this string and simply asking too much from it.
3. Coupling these changes with the 6th string whole tone lower (and 10th string whole tone lower (on my U-12), messes up the chord on the first two strings.
Buddy Emmons splits these two changes. That is, he puts one on the knee lever above and the other one he puts on a pedal. I forgot just which one does what. I am sure its on Ernie Renn's Website, but I am too lazy to look it up
I will raise 1 a whole tone, raise 2 a half tone AND raise 7 a whole tone on a separate lever soon. All of these changes are musically necessary. Time will show this exceedingly to most players I predict. Players like PF and BE have such incredible ears, they hear these sounds in their heads often before they install the change on their guitars.
Which contrasts sharply (in most cases) with the way most players do. But then Buddy and Paul are not most players. This is of course why they have acheieved such awesome status in the steel guitar world. In a word, it is why they are where they are.
May God richly bless Paul Franklin, Buddy Emmons and all of you,
carl
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Ernie Renn
- Posts: 3457
- Joined: 4 Aug 1998 11:00 pm
- Location: Brainerd, Minnesota USA
- Contact:
Buddy Info Page!
------------------
My best,
Ernie
The Official Buddy Emmons Website
www.buddyemmons.com
------------------
My best,
Ernie
The Official Buddy Emmons Website
www.buddyemmons.com
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Tony Prior
- Posts: 14522
- Joined: 17 Oct 2001 12:01 am
- Location: Charlotte NC
- Contact:
Hi Allan, excellent topic of discussion.
Scale in A
Starts with the second string raise at the 5th fret and the last movement is the 9th string lower at the open fret.
He Stopped Loving Her Today
Played on the 5th fret starting with the second string raise.
Let me be clear I am not a pro or an expert, just a common hack with a D10 / 9+8.
I couldn't agree more with Carls note above.
I feel it is important to have all of the second string movements on the right knee..I have my lowers on the RKR and the Raise on the RKL. I think this is most common. Having all movements on the right knee ( or same knee) allows for the common 3 note second string phrases ( raise, natural and lower) to be
played smoothly and also in conjunction with additional phrases from those two famous E levers. Just my view...
Linked are a couple of sound files with the use of the second string full tone lower and half step raise, both used in conjuction with the A or B pedal and unison notes.
I would also recommend the 9th string 1/2 step lower if you don't already have it.Mine is on RKR. This 9th string lower gives you the option of lowering to the bass note on the 9th string instead of raising to the bass note on the 10th string. Suttle , but nice. But heck..you probably already have the change..
A few months ago I traded "UP" with my friend here in Charlotte, Joe Smith, for my D10 Carter, 9+8. Lots of changes to grow into.
By the way, the second file, "He Stopped Loving Her Today" the influence was Bobbe Seymour playing it on his LIVE CD.
Just do it.....
good luck
tp<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 25 January 2003 at 05:56 AM.]</p></FONT>
Scale in A
Starts with the second string raise at the 5th fret and the last movement is the 9th string lower at the open fret.
He Stopped Loving Her Today
Played on the 5th fret starting with the second string raise.
Let me be clear I am not a pro or an expert, just a common hack with a D10 / 9+8.
I couldn't agree more with Carls note above.
I feel it is important to have all of the second string movements on the right knee..I have my lowers on the RKR and the Raise on the RKL. I think this is most common. Having all movements on the right knee ( or same knee) allows for the common 3 note second string phrases ( raise, natural and lower) to be
played smoothly and also in conjunction with additional phrases from those two famous E levers. Just my view...
Linked are a couple of sound files with the use of the second string full tone lower and half step raise, both used in conjuction with the A or B pedal and unison notes.
I would also recommend the 9th string 1/2 step lower if you don't already have it.Mine is on RKR. This 9th string lower gives you the option of lowering to the bass note on the 9th string instead of raising to the bass note on the 10th string. Suttle , but nice. But heck..you probably already have the change..
A few months ago I traded "UP" with my friend here in Charlotte, Joe Smith, for my D10 Carter, 9+8. Lots of changes to grow into.
By the way, the second file, "He Stopped Loving Her Today" the influence was Bobbe Seymour playing it on his LIVE CD.
Just do it.....
good luck
tp<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 25 January 2003 at 05:56 AM.]</p></FONT>
I don't have both 2nd string changes on the same knee. Reason: I split these two changes Lower to C# RKL and raise to D LKV2.
RKL lowers string 2 to D/C# and string 9 to C#. It also raises string 6 to G when used with the G# to F# lower (pedal 1).
LKV2 raises string 1 to G/G#, string 2 to E, and string 7 to G. The hit on string 2 (D# to E) gives me the G on the 1st string.
I don't think anything on pedal steel will ever be standard. If it was, we wouldn't love so much!
I try for as many changes as possible
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Bob Carden 66 Emmons P/P 8/9
BMI 13 string 7/7
RKL lowers string 2 to D/C# and string 9 to C#. It also raises string 6 to G when used with the G# to F# lower (pedal 1).
LKV2 raises string 1 to G/G#, string 2 to E, and string 7 to G. The hit on string 2 (D# to E) gives me the G on the 1st string.
I don't think anything on pedal steel will ever be standard. If it was, we wouldn't love so much!
I try for as many changes as possible
------------------
Bob Carden 66 Emmons P/P 8/9
BMI 13 string 7/7