How long

Jim Whitaker · Post by **Jim Whitaker** » 12 Jan 2003 9:07 pm

Ok guys & girls how long before I can stand to listen to myself play! I have been at it for over a year & I still SUCK. Bad tone, fast vibrato, volume pumping, blocking is horrible, and no memory. I can't even find a setting on my nashville 400 or profex II I like.(Both with mods). Frustration is really setting in as I finally recorded some stuff & man was it bad. There is not really a question here,(since I know the answer is practice)but I just needed to vent a little. Any suggestions would be appreciated!

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JIM
"Carter SD10" "74" LTD & NASHVILLE 400, Profex II "55" Esquire, "63 Epiphone, "63" Precision,
"71" Jazz

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 12 Jan 2003 9:27 pm

Jim,

At least you have only been at it for a year. I been at it since 1945 and I think I am worse now than when I started.

It will come. Promise,

God bless you in your quests,

carl

richard burton · Post by **richard burton** » 12 Jan 2003 10:22 pm

Jim,
Set your volume pedal so that it doesn't shut the sound off completely, have at least 20% coming through even when the pedal is backed right off. If you have a Hilton pedal this is an easy adjustment, most other pedals I put an adjusting screw in to limit the pedal movement.
What pickup is in your Carter?
I have tried several in my Carter SD10, the only humbucker that comes anywhere near a single coil is the George L TPPP (IMHO).
Try going through a graphic equaliser to cut the mids.
Tune your open strings with the pedals down (strings 4 and 8 with AB pedals down)
This may improve your tone, it certainly works for me.
RB

Marc Friedland · Post by **Marc Friedland** » 12 Jan 2003 10:32 pm

Jim, you're way ahead of the game. If you're between very bad and horrible after only one year, that's great! For me, realistic goals are important (and I'm not talking about Radio Shack.) I remember my first goals were that within a year or so I was hoping to be between horrible and extremely terrible. I'm not sure if I made it or not, but I'm pretty sure that within 5 years I was proud to be between pretty bad and way below average. I'm now entering my 10th year on this wonderful instrument. I no longer find the need of rating myself. I am content in the fact that for the most part, I perform and practice as much as I can, and accept any and all subtle improvements that I happen to make. Have Fun & Good Luck. -- Marc

DroopyPawn · Post by **DroopyPawn** » 12 Jan 2003 11:07 pm

Just curious. Do you play any other instruments well? I'm (without trying to brag) and excellent banjo, guitar, and bass player among others. But my steel playing (after at least a year) is still nowhere close to my skills on the other instruments I play.
gs

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John Lacey · Post by **John Lacey** » 13 Jan 2003 3:40 am

Jim, it took me at least a couple of years to feel like I wasn't skating on dull skates (Canadian reference). Be patient and keep practicing. If your equipment is set to task, work on one note sounding beautiful, the rest will follow.

George Kimery · Post by **George Kimery** » 13 Jan 2003 4:57 am

Do you have any decent players in your area that you could talk into listening to you and offer suggestions? It is a steep learning curve, for sure. When I got my first steel, I made a commitment to practice 3 hours every night for a year, then make an informed decision if I would continue after that. I stuck to the schedule pretty well and this was before any instructional material was available. I learned bad habits that I had to break later. I would have been so much better off if I would have had somebody to help me. And after a year, it wasn't too bad, but I wasn't getting the right sound from my 68 Emmons and Twin Reverb, and was not playing the licks I was hearing on records. I struggled on another 5 years, then quit for 7 years and stared my own business. I then came back fresh and went to Jeff Newmans week classes when he was having them. That made all the difference and got me on the right track. Patience and enjoying studying the instrument are two things to keep in mind. You don't have a deadline to meet. Just enjoy and keep at it. It will eventually come. If you quit, 5 or 10 years from now, you will regret it when you realize that you could be playing quite well if you had just stuck it out.

Darrell Schmidt · Post by **Darrell Schmidt** » 13 Jan 2003 7:28 am

Jim:
It was 5 years before I really went out in public and played anything.I still fight to play a song,but belive me it is there just waiting.One day you will stumble on something that comes easy and will carry you thruogh for a while and than you will hit a stumbling block again.It comes and go.I have seen many days I would like to chuck it all and have gone to steel jams and went away depressed because I could not play as well as others.I have seen steelers that have played for only a couple of years and are graet.I have to work at everthing i do so hang in there it will come.
Darrell Schmidt

LaGrande 2 d-10,Evans SE200,Hilton Volume Pedal and Sustainer,Dan Electro echo unit.

Bennie Hensley · Post by **Bennie Hensley** » 13 Jan 2003 8:56 am

Jim, I know exactly how you feel! I have also been playing for a little over a year and I still suck. One thing I know for sure is I am not going to give up, although I have thought about until I found this forum and get support from the "pros". They are the ones that have kept me from giving up. Let's hang in there together. Bennie

Glenn Austin · Post by **Glenn Austin** » 13 Jan 2003 9:53 am

Jim, I know how you feel. After I had been playing for a year I still didn't know squat either. The trick is to get yourself some tab of a tune or a player you really like, and learn their licks slowly. There's nothing more satisfying than being able to play a tune and actually sound like you're in the ballpark. It's just practicing slowly, and learning a bit every day, and trying to learn something new every time you sit at your guitar. Forget about speed and blocking for right now. Just learn how to milk those notes and sustain. There is nothing wrong with the gear you've got. I've gotten excellent tab from DonnaHammitt.com and the Rebel and Ricky site. You might want to get with a band too. It forces you to deliver the goods on the spot. Kind of a self inflicted torture, but you get my drift.

Tony Orth · Post by **Tony Orth** » 13 Jan 2003 10:05 am

Jim,

This is an extremely difficult instrument to learn to play. It's all about control and finesse. It takes much commitment, dedication, patience, and a lot of time.

As a realist, I have to say that one must measure the necessary commitment against other priorities in life. Perhaps give it another year and then decide to go or no-go.
I would second the suggestion on getting some one-on-one coaching, if you can.

Also, remember that "suck" is a relative thing. What sounds bad to you might not be so bad to non-pickers. Are you being overly critical of yourself?

Best of luck with your decision.
Tony

Ron Randall · Post by **Ron Randall** » 13 Jan 2003 10:54 am

Jim,

Man, I am with you. I have been at it about a year and a half learning nonpedal.

Things that have helped me:

Eliminate variation.
Find the picks you like and stay with them.
Find the bar you like and ......
Find the strings you like.......
Find the pedal, cords, amp, and stay with them.
The best thing I did was find a good instructor. Even though I know music and have taught 6 string guitar, I need that instructor.

In the beginning, I would change stuff based on what I read. Then I would try every gadget. Then I would chase electronic goodies looking for the sound. All this effort took time away from the most important thing. Gaining confidence.

Oh, gotta have fun, too.

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Fender Stringmaster T-8
Fender Custom D-8
8 string Benoit
Peavey Amps

David Farlow · Post by **David Farlow** » 13 Jan 2003 11:05 am

Jim, having just gotten back into playing PSG I know how you feel. One thing I wish I had done which you might want to try. Make a recording of yourself now and then wait some time, months, a year or whatever, go back and listen to yourself. compare where you were to where you are as time has passed, you might be pleasantly surprised to hear some progress. This instrument does require a lot from a person but it is well worth it.

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Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 13 Jan 2003 11:42 am

I played for 15 or 20 years thru the 70's and 80's.

Took off the entire 90's. Started playing again around late 2001.

I recently did some recordings, one of which I was thinking was pretty good for a hack on the rebound...

My wife said " You are gonna practice that some more before you record it again aren't you ? "

I wonder what she meant by that ?

So I quickly replied

" Oh yeah..Well your feet can't even reach the Pedals"

or something along those lines...

I told her...

tp

Jim Whitaker · Post by **Jim Whitaker** » 13 Jan 2003 12:16 pm

Thanks for all the replys. Today is a new day and I am about to get after it again. To answer some questions I played professionally for 23 years, Bass & Lead guitar. To pick up DroopyPawns assessment I play guitar pretty well & My Bass playing has always been considered exceptional So at times this is not only frustrating but a little embarassing. I work a lot so time is not available 3 hrs a day. I try to get a little time playing everyday but if I miss a day I miss a lot & remember less. I dont have to worry about working on speed because I have none! (lol)
Thanks again for all the comments & I'll just keep chuggin along. As for players There are many here in Sw Ohio. Some I would consider great players but I don't think I am even ready for that yet.(no sense in driving them crazy too)

Jim

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JIM
"Carter SD10" "74" LTD & NASHVILLE 400, Profex II "55" Esquire, "63 Epiphone, "63" Precision,
"71" Jazz

[This message was edited by Jim Whitaker on 13 January 2003 at 12:19 PM.][This message was edited by Jim Whitaker on 13 January 2003 at 12:21 PM.]

richard burton · Post by **richard burton** » 13 Jan 2003 1:32 pm

Jim,
A couple more practical tips;
Lower your pickup.
Pick 12 frets up from wherever your bar is placed. You are then picking on the node of the vibrating string, and it sounds better.
Compare picking at the changer with picking 12 frets up. See what you like best.
RB

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 13 Jan 2003 2:50 pm

Jim, I have to echo what a few others have said here...get some lessons from a good player! A good player can tell you what you're doing wrong, as well as tell you what you're concentrating on that could be forgotten for awhile (like that vibrato and volume pedal pumping). A teacher might take you as far in a month (with 4 or 5 lessons) as you could get in a year on your own.

It's an "easy study" for some people to play steel, and a difficult one for others, but anyone can gain a level of acceptable proficiency if they have the proper guidance. For some players, tapes and tab work well, but others need one-on-one help to speed the process.

One area where many beginners falter is trying try to learn the more difficult stuff first. Don't concentrate on speed and "fancy licks" if you're a beginner. Forget about all those "other pedals" for awhile. Just the A and B pedals, along with the knee lever that lowers the E's, will give you a ton of stuff to work on. Try to do the simple, slow stuff, and just practice until you can do it well. Play one easy song, and just start building on that foundation...it'll come, believe me.

That's how most all of us started.

P.S. Put that Profex away for awhile, and just use the steel and amp. Beginners have far more important things to worry about than programming different presets. Fooling with equipment to get "a good sound" is taking valuable time away from your learning of the basics.

my2cents, anyway.

Jim Eaton · Post by **Jim Eaton** » 13 Jan 2003 3:35 pm

I don't know if you have any "tracks" to play along with, but if you don't have some, then get some!
You can learn more about "playing" music on steel by playing along with tracks than any other way IMHO.
Jeff Newman and several others have tracks available that will really help you get better much faster than just wood sheeding on steel alone.
JE:-)>

John Bresler · Post by **John Bresler** » 13 Jan 2003 3:40 pm

I have found that Steel players have a tendency to be very critical of themselves. They usually feel that they just don't play as good as the last player they listened to. Tom Bradshaw wrote an article once about the "Tone" we steel pickers are always searching for and don't feel we have achieved it yet.

My point is that you probably are better than you think. Get together with other players in your area and exchange licks, etc. Another good thing to do is to play with a band or even a group of good guitar, bass, and drum players. You'll always sound better with a band.

Johnny Cox · Post by **Johnny Cox** » 13 Jan 2003 4:24 pm

It took me three years year to realize that what you figured out in one. Your doing great. Keep pickin.

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Johnny Cox

[This message was edited by Johnny Cox on 13 January 2003 at 04:34 PM.]

Jim Whitaker · Post by **Jim Whitaker** » 13 Jan 2003 4:38 pm

All i know is I hope all you guys are right. The concensus is I will improve over time & I really hope so. I love this instrument & I will keep working. As for a teacher I don't know of any teachers per say in my area but I will inquire from a few different players that can maybe help me Thanks again.

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JIM
"Carter SD10" "74" LTD & NASHVILLE 400, Profex II "55" Esquire, "63 Epiphone, "63" Precision,
"71" Jazz

Sam White · Post by **Sam White** » 13 Jan 2003 6:07 pm

Jim give it time .I started to learn to play back in 75 76 and gave up after a month of knowing nothing about music. Then i tryed again in 84 and gave up again.I turned 60 6 years ago and Istarted again and I'm still at it. I can play some but not that good yet. I practic 2 to 3 hours every day and I'm not satisfied yet. I have great sounding equipment but have a long ways to go. I will never quit trying to play this Steel.I pick up stuff every day now. I find it is starting to come around.So just stick it out and you will be playing before you know it.
Sam white

Nathan Delacretaz · Post by **Nathan Delacretaz** » 14 Jan 2003 1:10 pm

As Donny said, lessons with a real, live professional make a huge difference. Watching and emulating a pro's technique gets you headed in the right direction. The couple of lessons I've taken with Herb Steiner have been awesome.

The things that you're doing right are reinforced and the things you're doing wrong get remedied...

Bill Llewellyn · Post by **Bill Llewellyn** » 14 Jan 2003 1:51 pm

Jim, I'm a bit past three years myself, and identify with your position. It's rough trying to get to the point that something seemingly good comes out of the guitar every once in a while, especially with very limited practice time. What I have found to be helpful is:

1. Get at least some guidance from a skilled player. I've taken all of two lessons and both helped me a lot. In my first lesson my teacher fixed my right hand position and on the spot my picking tone and palm blocking improved a lot. He also pointed out my pedal pumping and vibrato overages and taught me some scales to drill. A very big help.

2. Drill scales.... slowly. It is boring and can be frustrating when you keep missing strings or catching the hook of your thumb pick (which I have done a lot), but you really do learn! Do not try to speed up, that will come eventually and naturally (I'm still slow, but not as slow as I was 2 years ago). For over a year I would "force" myself to do scales for about 20 minutes before I'd let myself go to the "fun" part of playing along with CDs or tracks. It definitely helped. I stopped doing scales for a while, but I'm starting to do that again because I like the benefits.

3. Do some of your exercises with your foot off the volume pedal. This way you learn that constant volume changes are unnecessary.

4. I wear headphones. This has two benefits.... First, I don't bug anybody with my playing. Second, since I know I can't be heard and there's no audience for my flubs, I'm less intimidated and will venture out more than if I knew there might be people evaluating my every note.

5. Do get some tracks to play along with. This will help you (a) with intonation (bar position), and (b) with timing.

6. As mentioned in a previous post, don't go for fancy effects. They can fool you into thinking your sound is more interesting that it really is (reverb can make you think you sound smoother than you do, for example). I just use a touch of reverb or reverb+delay and nothing else.

In three years I'd say my playing has gone from disasterous to alarming, which is progress! Time is of the essence with this endeavour. Persistance generally pays off.

Have fun!

David Cobb · Post by **David Cobb** » 14 Jan 2003 7:58 pm

First off Jim, like others have said, don't be too critical of your playing. Everyone learns at their own speed. I'm pretty certain that Buddy didn't sound like the Buddy we know after just a year.

Generally speaking, after that first year of playing, a fiddle player still stinks, so does a banjo player, a harmonica player, a guitar player, etc. etc. and the steel is no different. Go over your basic scales and grips so that you have a foundation. I know I'm not the only one who plays along with CD's and tapes. When you nail a lick that you've heard on record, it feels real good and it makes you want to keep going and building on that little success. Pretty soon you're playing the whole song. And play to please yourself.