The first "tunable split" I ever saw was on the first LeGrande I ever saw at the ISGC in the early 80's. In fact, I was sooo intrigued with it, I later bought one. And I dearly love that tunable split feature.
Later, I purchased a Sierra and had Don install "his" type of tunable split. It was ok, but I did not like it as well as the way Emmons does it.
Having said that, I am wondering if any of you who have tunable splits; AND you tune JI (Just Intonation); AND you lower your B's to Bb have the following problem?
It simply does NOT work for me. In other words, IF I tune the split on 5 and 10 for that perfect A minor say, the Bb is too sharp. As a result, the split screw does nothing. Because it was designed to limit the drop when the full through was too flat. Not to lower the string when it is too sharp. Now I fully understand that IF I tuned ET this would NOT happen.
Anyone?
carl
Splitting
Moderator: Shoshanah Marohn
Carl, I have experienced something like this condition on the B-Bb 10th string. On the 5th string however the tunable split system works--and I have both kinds, the extra rod version on my Franklin, and the screw stop on my Zum. On the 10th string it is marginal on both steels. My thought would be that since wound strings from different manufacturers have different core wire guages, which necessitate different pulls to produce the same pitch change, it might be that a different maker's wound 10th would solve this for you--if thw 10th is the string you're referring to!
Best,
Rob Segal
Best,
Rob Segal
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Carl, can you describe how the LeGrande tunable split works? I'm only familiar with the method used by Sierra (and many other manufacturers) that limits the throw of the lowering finger.
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<small><img align=right src="http://b0b.com/b0b.gif" width="64" height="64">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (F Diatonic), Sierra Laptop 8 (D13), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6), Roland Handsonic
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<small><img align=right src="http://b0b.com/b0b.gif" width="64" height="64">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (F Diatonic), Sierra Laptop 8 (D13), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6), Roland Handsonic
Ok,
On the LeGrande, instead of using an additional "raise" rod on the lower bellcrank, they use an Allen set screw just to the right of the changer. It essentially does the same thing with this one caveat:
1. The Sierra actually "pulls" (raises) the lower back as the lower rod tries to move the changer finger lower (after the split note is achieved). Resulting in no further movement, once the split is reached.
2. The Emmons actually "limits" the lower from going beyond a given point (set screw).
Each has its advantages; in that the Sierra allows unlimited (on a given string) splits. Whereas the Emmons cannot go below what the highest setting is; using the setscrew on a given string.
Note on my Excel I make use of BOTH type splits (on the same string) to achieve two different split notes to bring the specific split in tune because of JI problems of different chordal combinations.
The advantage of the Emmons over the Sierra, is it does not use a raise hole that one might need for another pull. Also, being on top of the quitar, it is easier to adjust.
hope this helps.
The problem I am having with my Emmons NOT working with the 5th string split also happens on my Excel. I KNOW what is causing it.
Because I am pulling my A pedal C# to perfect JI from an ET B, the amount of movement is so less than what it would be if I was tuning it to ET. This means the resultant split is accomplised; BEFORE the lower rod has even thought about being too flat.
Therefore, there is NO way to flatten the Bb note when I use that knee lever alone. I do NOT have this problem on splitting with the B pedal. And obviously this is because ALL three notes are tuned ET, IE, A, G and F#. this is further helped because the open string G# is set to JI. This means the travels are much greater going to A and the other notes.
If the above is clear as mud, chalk it up to my inability to describe it more clearly.
carl
On the LeGrande, instead of using an additional "raise" rod on the lower bellcrank, they use an Allen set screw just to the right of the changer. It essentially does the same thing with this one caveat:
1. The Sierra actually "pulls" (raises) the lower back as the lower rod tries to move the changer finger lower (after the split note is achieved). Resulting in no further movement, once the split is reached.
2. The Emmons actually "limits" the lower from going beyond a given point (set screw).
Each has its advantages; in that the Sierra allows unlimited (on a given string) splits. Whereas the Emmons cannot go below what the highest setting is; using the setscrew on a given string.
Note on my Excel I make use of BOTH type splits (on the same string) to achieve two different split notes to bring the specific split in tune because of JI problems of different chordal combinations.
The advantage of the Emmons over the Sierra, is it does not use a raise hole that one might need for another pull. Also, being on top of the quitar, it is easier to adjust.
hope this helps.
The problem I am having with my Emmons NOT working with the 5th string split also happens on my Excel. I KNOW what is causing it.
Because I am pulling my A pedal C# to perfect JI from an ET B, the amount of movement is so less than what it would be if I was tuning it to ET. This means the resultant split is accomplised; BEFORE the lower rod has even thought about being too flat.
Therefore, there is NO way to flatten the Bb note when I use that knee lever alone. I do NOT have this problem on splitting with the B pedal. And obviously this is because ALL three notes are tuned ET, IE, A, G and F#. this is further helped because the open string G# is set to JI. This means the travels are much greater going to A and the other notes.
If the above is clear as mud, chalk it up to my inability to describe it more clearly.
carl
