How Many Pedals - Both Feet

DroopyPawn · Post by **DroopyPawn** » 12 Jan 2003 5:52 pm

I'm considering changing my tuning system.

I have 7 pedals. When you guys with more than 4 pedals play on pedals 5, 6, 7, etc, do you still use your left foot and keep the right foot on the volume pedal or do you forget the volume pedal and put both feet on the changer pedals? Seems like a lot of moving around for just one foot to do. Also looks like it might get hard to stay away from the LKR lever when you don't want to use it.

I'm going to redo some stuff on my guitar - still undecided on exactly what but I think I may have a hard time with more than 5 pedals.

Any thoughts?

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C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 12 Jan 2003 6:16 pm

Gary,

Again, a little history is helpful here. The standard D-10 which spawned the birth of the U-12 (E9th/B6th) PSG is used as follows:

1. Pedals 1, 2 and 3 plus RKL, RKR, LKL, LKV and LKR are used for E9th voicings.

2. Pedals 4 thru 8 plus RKL and RKR are used for C6th voicings. In this case, most will move their left knee out of the left knee "cluster" and move it over so they can go from pedal 4-8 with out having a knee lever in the way; when playing the C6 neck.

So yes, most keep their right foot on the volume pedal all the time. Maestros like Buddy Emmons will often come off the volume pedal and engage one or more pedals with his right foot. This is however, the exception rather than the rule.

Now when these two necks were combined into one neck making a U-12, the standard was pretty much kept the same. A few compromises was necessary, but for the most part very similar. One Major change took place with most U-12r's. That is the lowering of the E's to Eb which most players have on LKR on a D-10 was moved to the right knee on a U-12. And a lot of U-12 players have NO LKR. Some do but not most of them. They did this so their left knee would be unincumbered when moving all across the 8 or more floor pedals. Also, some like Jeff Newman, have a rather LONG LKV, so it can be activated no matter which pedal is engaged.

Others opted to keep LKR and move their leg out of that Left knee "cluster" and move to the right when playing B6 type of songs. Some also use a LOK lever to lock the E's to Eb. while doing this.

Yet others like me, keep the lowering of the E's on LKR; since pedals 4 thru 8 are used almost always with the E's lowered to Eb. So it is a natural thing. That is, as I swing over to those pedals, it naturally engages the LKR (E's to Eb) which these pedals require.

Still others like Jeff Newman, have a LKR, BUT it is way forward from standard. This way they can swing their left leg across all the pedals unincumbered, but move forward to catch that LKR when playing in the E9th mode.

Much to think about huh? Always remember an ole saying,

"Flexibility breeds complexity"

God bless you always,

carl

Ricky0ne1 · Post by **Ricky0ne1** » 13 Jan 2003 6:47 am

Thanks Carl!
I understood it the first time I read it...
You truly have a gift...

Rick Summers

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 13 Jan 2003 7:03 am

Well, I must be a bit odd, because I've played E9U with TWO LKRs for more than 25 years. Maybe my legs are longer or my feet are bigger

but I have no problem at all reaching LKR (either of them) and any pedals. Actually, one of my LKR changes replaces the traditional C6 6th pedal, and I combine it with EVERYTHING. It's the LKLs that are hard to combine with the 4th-8th pedals. I've never used (or needed) a longer vertical lever.

My personal preference is NO LOCK LEVER, ONE FOOT ON THE PEDALS, and ALL KNEE LEVERS AVAILABLE AT ALL TIMES.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2000 Fessenden S-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro[This message was edited by Larry Bell on 13 January 2003 at 07:04 AM.]

Joe Alterio · Post by **Joe Alterio** » 14 Jan 2003 10:55 am

QUESTION: For all you pickers who have an E9 setup with more than three pedals...how far over can you typically reach with your left foot (and not hitting the knee lever)? On my old 5 pedal Extended E9, I found that if I wanted to play the 5th pedal, I would have to take my foot off the volume pedal to keep things going smoothly. I'm guessing all others must be doing the same?

Joe

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 14 Jan 2003 11:53 am

Great question Joe,

Two things may be of interest to you in my answer to your question. I once saw Herby Wallace play on his D-10 and regardless of which neck he used, his left knee remained in the E9th knee lever "cluster".

As I watched him play the C6 neck I noticed he would ocassionally use one of these knee levers (I do not recall which one). I found it awesome that at NO time did I perceive it caused him ANY difficulty as his left foot danced fluidly from pedals 4 to 8. So intrigued with this, I spoke with him about it; after his set.

He, as Herby ALWAYS is, graciously told me that indeed "it is no problem for me" and even told me what he did with that knee lever when he was playing the C6 neck. Sadly I have forgotten, but somehow I believe it might have lowered his 4th string a half a tone. But not sure.

I don't ever recall seeing anyone else with a D-10 keep their knee in the E9th "cluster" when playing C6. Most, like BE, will quickly move it back and over to the right and back when going from one neck to the other.

The second thing I wish to tell you is, when I finally decided to go universal, THIS was my major hangup. And created the most thorough study before I decided to do it. Sadly, every copedent I have ever seen, did NOT satisfy me in that requirement. No matter how I tried, I was right back to a D-10 in 'essence'. It was NOT until one night fooling with setup charts; that I hit on something. And I almost jumped out of my chair.

I will not bore you with the details. But what I found, has totally revolutionized my playing and the reason I would NEVER go back to a D-10. In a word I made several major changes that resulted in me needing ONLY 5 pedals which can easily get everything my D-10 can (using knee levers of course), with one LONE exception.

And, both of my legs stay in relatively the same position. I have just two clusters; one for my right knee and one for the left. Incidently, I do have 6 pedals. But pedal 6 is only an experimental pedal and has nothing to do with the above.

As I stated in my earlier post, I am one of those that does NOT lower my E's with my right knee. If I had to do this, I would stay with a D-10. There is more than one reason for this. And was one of the absolute "musts" when I was trying to decide on a copedent for a U-12.

I lower the E's with LKR, where I have always done it on my D-10's; as do most players according to a survey I took on this forum several years ago. And for my tastes, I simply could not live with it ANY where else.

I am 100% happy with this universal tuning. If this guitar did not have excessive cabinet drop, strings that are not flat at the nut and lower volume on the 1st three strings, it would truly be the finest guitar I have EVER owned. Or ever sat down to. I still love it, but surely wish I didn't have these three problems. But I do, and I will have to live with it.

And I do happily; through the grace of Jesus,

Carl[This message was edited by C Dixon on 14 January 2003 at 11:56 AM.]