12th string goes "thunk"

Peter · Post by **Peter** » 9 Jan 2003 3:30 am

On my Universal S12 the 12th string (B-string .068W, 24 1/4 scale) does not ring like the higher strings do. The Remington guitar has a Danny Shields CrapTrap pickup. Any suggestions to make the string sound better?

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Peter den Hartogh-Fender Artist S10-Remington U12-Hilton Volume Pedal-Gibson BR4 lapsteel-Guya "Stringmaster" Copy-MusicMan112RP-Peavy Rage158- - My Animation College in South Africa

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 9 Jan 2003 7:44 am

Have you tried varying the distance from pickup surface or pole piece to the string? You should be able to adjust only the lower strings with a little spring loaded machine screw, if it's like most pickup mounts. The distance should be optimized by ear and there can be vast differences in sound as you vary that distance.

A 068W is a bit thin for my taste, but should sound fine if the pickup is adjusted properly. Is the string dead? Do all other strings sound fine?

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2000 Fessenden S-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro[This message was edited by Larry Bell on 09 January 2003 at 07:45 AM.]

Peter · Post by **Peter** » 9 Jan 2003 8:33 am

Larry, I have tried new strings, but that made no difference. I have an old non-descript 8-string lapsteel and about 20 years ago I put on an Emmons pickup which a friend gave me. The strings are from 1993. I recently got it out of the cupboard and noticed this wonderful "telecaster" type twang on the lowest (old) strings. This made me want to try to improve the U12 bottom string sound.

I will try the pole piece settings. I have 2 rows of separate adjustable pole piece (allen screws) plus 4 pickup mount screws, so there is plenty of adjustment available.
What do you suggest I should start with? Closer distance or more distance?
If a 068 is a bit thin, what gauge do you suggest?

(I am have a lot of fun playing with your Uncle Phil)

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 9 Jan 2003 8:54 am

Peter, the rule of thumb for distance between pickup and strings is that the distance be the same as the thickness of a quarter. That's a U.S. coin that about standard coin thickness, but I'm not familiar with South African coinage. Too far gives poor pickup response with the same background hum, so that means a poor signal to noise ratio. Too close can actually dampen the vibrations of the strings, especially for harmonics, and can make it too easy for your picking hand to accidently press the low strings against tha pickup. That "just right" distance is important and can make a huge difference in pickup response.

Karlis Abolins · Post by **Karlis Abolins** » 9 Jan 2003 9:00 am

Peter, I have essentially the same guitar but with a different pickup. I recently put new strings on which included the .068 12th string. It sounds flabby. I am going to replace it with a .072 or .074. I think the tension is too low for the .068.

Karlis

Michael Johnstone · Post by **Michael Johnstone** » 9 Jan 2003 11:49 am

I have a crap-trap on my Sierra and I wouldn't part with it - but nothing's gonna make your low(and mid)strings twang like a single coil pickup. I put one of Jerry Wallace's True-Tone single coils on my new Excel 12-string and I am rediscovering the joys of a single coil.String guage issues aside,I think changing to a single coil is the "single" most effective thing you can do for the problem at hand. -MJ-

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 9 Jan 2003 7:46 pm

I have to agree with Michael. A good single coil pickup is hard to beat, as long as a little noise doesn't scare you. The Lawrence 910 is a pretty good approximation without the rf / noise problems.

Distance is critical, however. Don't underestimate it. A guitar can sound totally different with the pickup moved slightly up or down. I usually like to have the bass side a bit lower than the treble, but that's just what usually sounds best to my ears.

Also, I'd use a 074 on the bottom. I've used as large as 079, but I think 074 sounds best on my guitars.

Glad you like Uncle Phil. Figured it out yet?

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2000 Fessenden S-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro

Peter · Post by **Peter** » 9 Jan 2003 9:02 pm

David, I have a couple of quarters in my toolbox and I am using them, thanks.

Karlis, I will try those different gauges.

Michael, I suspected as much about the Crap-Trap, that's why I asked. I was hoping for a conformation, thanks. I have been thinking of adding a Jerry Wallace pickup right next to the Crap-Trap (which I want to keep

). Do you think that by having it mounted too far away from the bridge, that the sound will suffer? Also, is Jerry's pup flat at the bottom? I dont want to cut a hole in the neck for protruding magnets. Maybe Chas knows? Mind you, I should ask Jerry.

Larry, I will get the strings and try those, and then play with the distance.
And yes, it is not too difficult to figure your Uncle out.

I have just started, so I only have done the main theme and a couple of "Albert Lee" sections.

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Peter den Hartogh-Fender Artist S10-Remington U12-Hilton Volume Pedal-Gibson BR4 lapsteel-Guya "Stringmaster" Copy-MusicMan112RP-Peavy Rage158- - My Animation College in South Africa

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 10 Jan 2003 1:19 am

Peter,
It might be the guitar. The only guitar I have played that really has that piano string growling ring to it on the lowest strings has been my old Emmons Bolt on PP. If you cannot get that sound you want from the steel when it is unplugged not much is going to help.

Bob

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 10 Jan 2003 7:55 am

Bob brings up a valid point, although both my Fessy and my push-pull have a rich, full tone on the bottom string. I've never played one of Herb's guitars but I've heard him play them and ALL the strings sounded great to me.

One other thing to remember is that those big strings go dead quicker than the others. I've always figured that the larger windings are a better trap for dead skin and sweat that will kill a string pretty quickly (a different type of 'crap trap'). That's why bass players (and some steel players) would boil their Rotosounds back in the 60's and it would actually bring them back to life (for a WHILE).

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2000 Fessenden S-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro