Tuning 440

Allan Thompson · Post by **Allan Thompson** » 27 Dec 2002 12:50 pm

This is not meant to start another tuning war JI v ET. I`m just interested in how many of you guys out there tune straight 440 or very close?

Robert Thomas · Post by **Robert Thomas** » 27 Dec 2002 2:51 pm

Hi, this topic will really strike a note, hopefully it wont go flat or be too sharp in the responses you will get.
I have always tuned, E-9th and C-6th, 440 staight-up since elecronic tuners became available. I have never had a problem with that nor have I had a tuning problem with the groups that I have played with. I have only been playing for over 54 years now.
I can remember the good old days when everyone was always tuning or trying to get in tune with each other by ear, what a tune time for the audience.
There, you have my response, but it seems everyone else has their own way of doing it and whatever works for each person is the way it should be. You just have to figure out what is going to work best for you.

Frank Parish · Post by **Frank Parish** » 27 Dec 2002 2:57 pm

I tune the C6 neck to straight up 440, all the raises and lowers too. The E9 neck is another thing. I use the JI method and it works for me but it's like Robert said, it's what works for you.

John Knight · Post by **John Knight** » 27 Dec 2002 4:21 pm

I guess I like to listen to myself to much. I can not tune each string 440. Just to many beats for the thirds. I tune roots and 5ths 440 and the rest to my ear.

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D 10 Thomas with 8&6, '61'D-10 Sho-Bud 8&3
S12 Knight 4&4
Nashville 400 and Profex II
81' Fender Twin JBL's
Asleep at the Steel

Jody Sanders · Post by **Jody Sanders** » 27 Dec 2002 8:57 pm

I tune E9 open all strings to 441. All pedals and levers to 440. C6 : All strings open to 440. All pedals and levers to 440. Works for me. Jody. (Been pickin' 58 years)

Dave Robbins · Post by **Dave Robbins** » 27 Dec 2002 10:12 pm

Allen,
my response to this question is going to be in reference to your question being 440 as a "reference pitch" rather than whether a person tunes "straight up" or not.

A person's tuning is really going to be subject to the "amount of cabinet drop" their guitar has (another topic rehashed over and over). For example, a guitar like the LeGrande III with the counterforce system (or any guitar "without cabinet drop") is not going to be as affected by cabinet drop like some other brand might be. It can pretty much be tuned "pedals up" or "pedals down" to reference 440.
On the other hand, a guitar with cabinet drop could be tuned to 440 "pedals up", but when the pedals are applied cabinet drop will affect all the "open" strings. Granted, the pitch of the strings being changed by the pedals can be adjusted back to the 440 reference, but the open strings will be flat. The alternative in that case might be to tune the open ("pedals up") tuning to a reference higher than 440 (441, 442,etc, depending on the amount of cabinet drop) so that the "pedals down" tuning will then reference at 440. Like I said, my LeGrande III can be tuned to 440 both "pedals up and pedals down". My push/pull, on the other hand, has a bit of cabinet drop, so I tune it to reference 440 pedals down, but 441 or 442 for pedals up to make up for the cabinet drop. I prefer to tune the "pedals down" pitch to 440 since this is in reference to "A" chord (since there is now such thing as "E 440") and seems to sound better with any "open A" type playing I might do. I find that I play "pedals down" much more often than "pedals up". And, playing with E being sharp of 440 doesn't seem as offensive as playing with A being flat to 440. The amount of cabinet drop affects all this and just how close to 440 you can get.

Now Allen, if your question is that of who tunes straight up and who doesn't (whether or not they tune their "thirds" flat to 440, or in other words, "tuning the beats out"), that is a completely different question and one that has been "rehashed" over and over on this forum, ad infinitum!

Now, get ready for the debate, once again!

Dave

Chick Donner · Post by **Chick Donner** » 28 Dec 2002 7:41 am

I tuned to a 440 fork (actually a 456 "E" fork) for about 30 years. When I finally went electronic with a DTR-1, I went to 442 open for the E's, and basically a modified Newman for the rest.

Oddly enough, though Jeff has argued with me that it can't be, on C6 I tune the E's at 442 and everything else about 4 cycles high, and it's in tune!

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 28 Dec 2002 9:37 am

I tune the back neck of my D-10 straight up on the meter (equal temperment) to an A440 reference. It doesn't sound out of tune to me. I've had no complaints from band leaders or recording session producers about it.

I can't tune it that way by ear, though.

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/b0b.gif" width="64" height="64">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (F Diatonic), Sierra Laptop 8 (D13), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6), Roland Handsonic

chas smith · Post by **chas smith** » 28 Dec 2002 11:29 am

On my Super Pro with the MIDI pickup, whenever I'm playing samples and guitar, I tune straight up.

rhcarden · Post by **rhcarden** » 28 Dec 2002 11:51 am

I tune straight-up 440 as close as possible. You can only tune as good as your guitar will allow.

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Bob Carden 66 Emmons P/P 8/9
BMI 13 string 7/7

Ernie Renn · Post by **Ernie Renn** » 28 Dec 2002 1:28 pm

Add Buddy and me to the list of 440-ers.

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My best,
Ernie

The Official Buddy Emmons Website
www.buddyemmons.com

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 28 Dec 2002 8:06 pm

I tune 440, or rather...I tune the A's or E's "dead on". Then, I tune out the beats on everything...but the 7th and 9th string. Those two, I just have to "compromise" on. Unless you have some sort of mechanical compensator on the guitar, those two strings will always be out of tune in either the pedals up, or the pedals down position. Once you realize that fact, though, tuning becomes a snap on the E9th.

John Steele · Post by **John Steele** » 28 Dec 2002 11:23 pm

I think you'll find when people speak of "tuning 440", they mean tuning every note to 12 O'Clock on the tuner, creating an equally tempered tuning,
in relation to the A note at 440 hertz, without regard to the existence of beats.
I'm trying to get there, as most other instruments these days are set up that way, but it's a struggle.
-John

Bill Crook · Post by **Bill Crook** » 29 Dec 2002 4:56 am

I tuned stright 440 for a number of years. The band leader keep saying I wasen't in tune,that I sounded like $#$$$. After I started to tune the 3rd and 6th strings about 10-15cents flat,the world became a wonderful place. I have also noticed that if I close/depress both pedals while tunning other strings stright 440,it does seem to have a more equal temperment across the range. Also, I have noticed that when I tune the 3rd and 6th strings a bit lower,the paralax viewing of the fretboard is somewhat better. in other words,tunning to 440,playing from the 8th to the 12th frets is O.K. viewing them stright down on top. But from the 7th back down to the 1st fret, one has the tendency to not have the bar quite on the fret marker,therefore the tone is sharp. Now lower the 3rd and 6th strings 10-15cents,and I notice that the axe seems to be more in tune with itself. And the
band leader is more happy with the overall tone and sound.

Again,like someone else said,the axe may have a lot to do with how we may need to tune certain strings.

I guess,It's all in how well you know your axe.

Dennis Detweiler · Post by **Dennis Detweiler** » 29 Dec 2002 7:24 am

Not sure how this works with led readout tuners, but with the "needle" type tuners you can leave the dial set on the E note and tune the 3rd and 6th strings straight up and it is tempered with the E notes. B notes can be tuned this way also. The B notes will end up 440 with the E notes. The G# notes will end up flat to true pitch. You may have to use harmonics to get the needle to pick up the B and G# notes with the dial set on E.
Dennis[This message was edited by Dennis Detweiler on 29 December 2002 at 06:05 PM.]

Joe Smith · Post by **Joe Smith** » 29 Dec 2002 8:24 am

Well on the C6th neck, I tune all strings and pulls straight up. Needle in the Center.
On E9th, I do the same thing, but then I tweak things a little so that it sounds right to my ear.
Most times I will flatten the g#s just a tad.
It's funny, some days I sound in tune and other times no matter what I do, I never sound in tune.

Reece Anderson · Post by **Reece Anderson** » 29 Dec 2002 8:26 am

Being in tune requires a musical mathmatical compromise which may be variable between the ears of the listeners!

Skip Mertz · Post by **Skip Mertz** » 29 Dec 2002 9:25 am

OH NOOOOO , MR. BILL!

Henry Matthews · Post by **Henry Matthews** » 29 Dec 2002 10:42 am

I've tried the 440 tuning on both my guitars. One is a p/p Emmons and the other a L Legrand and neither sound in tune to my ears or the band either. The only time they sound in tune is if I'm picking without using the bar so that tends to tell me that maybe I'm doing something with the bar that I shouldn't, to much pressure or something. Maybe some of you pro's can enlighten me on that. I have found that I sound more in tune using the old Buddy Emmons tuning. E's 440, G#'s 436 and B's 439 and I temper the other strings to get out the beats and also temper the pulls and lowers to get out the beats using a Boss chromatic tuner. I have noticed too that at times, no matter what I do, nothing sounds in tune and I believe that I have found the cause of that problem. One of the other band members is little off. My bass player has a bad habit of not tuning,LOL.

Ron Randall · Post by **Ron Randall** » 29 Dec 2002 2:10 pm

Allan's question:

This is not meant to start another tuning war JI v ET. I`m just interested in how many of you guys out there tune straight 440 or very close?

Lee Baucum · Post by **Lee Baucum** » 29 Dec 2002 3:41 pm

I do!

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Lee, from South Texas
Down On The Rio Grande

basilh · Post by **basilh** » 29 Dec 2002 3:49 pm

Ditto
Baz

Wayne Cox · Post by **Wayne Cox** » 29 Dec 2002 5:05 pm

If I am working with an "electrified" piano player,I can tune pretty much straight up,but...if there is no keyboard,and the guitarist tunes his thirds a little flat,well...its back to the "good ole' days".
Every man for himself! ~~W.C.~~

Henry Matthews · Post by **Henry Matthews** » 29 Dec 2002 5:09 pm

Ron, I wasn't trying to start a tuning war. It was more like asking for help from pickers about their tunings and bar pressure etc.

Earl Foote · Post by **Earl Foote** » 29 Dec 2002 5:23 pm

I've tried tuning with no offsets and it sounded very bad. I've heard other players that said they tuned without offsets and they sounded wonderful. The point I'm trying to make is I think you are going to have to blaze your own trail here and do what you feel comfortable with. For what its worth, I tune the E's straight up and the rest by ear. I then made a chart for my VS-1 so I can do the above in a very loud environment.