Sd-10

James Quackenbush · Post by **James Quackenbush** » 27 Dec 2002 7:01 am

I was wondering how you guys and gals would set up an SD-10 if you were ordering one new...By this I mean would you have 4 pedals (one for the Franklin ) or 3 pedals or ??...
Would you have 4 knees or would you have 5 with a vertical, or ?????? I would like to set it up using the Emmons copedant, and I'd like to hear a bit from you kind folks as to how you would order it..I'm leaning more toward an SD-10 as I'm just learning, and find that I get easily confused with the C6 neck and would like to get more familiar with the E9 neck...Thanks in advance for your help.,.Jim

Skip Mertz · Post by **Skip Mertz** » 27 Dec 2002 7:45 am

James, if you listen to what Lloyd does with minimal levers 3 x 4 that should give you a clue as to what you can do!

Allan Thompson · Post by **Allan Thompson** » 27 Dec 2002 8:20 am

Hi James, It`s worth thinking about Bobbe Seymour`s Z lever on one knee and the E`s raised and lowered on the other. You could add another knee lever on the Z lever side doing wharever you choose. I think with this set up three pedals and four levers would be plenty to keep you going a lifetime.

Roger Crawford · Post by **Roger Crawford** » 27 Dec 2002 9:22 am

Skip...not a fair comparison. Lloyd can do more with 2 pedals and 1 knee than most can do with a full compliment of pedals & knees! My SD10 has 3&5, and is more than enough to keep me confused.
Roger

Skip Mertz · Post by **Skip Mertz** » 27 Dec 2002 9:52 am

Right Roger, hey I didn't know you had a SD-10, what kind?

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 27 Dec 2002 11:19 am

I'd tune it like this:
<center>

</center>

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/b0b.gif" width="64" height="64">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (F Diatonic), Sierra Laptop 8 (D13), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6), Roland Handsonic

Allen · Post by **Allen** » 27 Dec 2002 4:09 pm

b0b,
Like James, I am having a new guitar built and have much the same question.
Can you explain why you would change strings 9/10 from the normal D/B to to B/E?
Why would you set LKR as shown vice the usual 4&8 down a half(as you have put that change on RKL)?
You have some interesting set-ups and I am not expierenced enough to understand why. Maybe a little dialog to go with the chart would help.
Thanks,

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Allen Harry
Emmons SD10
Mullen D-10,
Nashville 1000

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 27 Dec 2002 5:32 pm

Okay. I like having a low E so that I can play guitar-like rhythm styles. Lowering the 7th string F# to E (on LKR) gives me the lower half of the "Sacred Steel" tuning, which is great for rhythm. With LKR engaged, I have a stummable E major. If I then push P4, it becomes an E minor. RKR makes it an E7th. LKR+P2+P3 makes a very solid A major, and LKR+P3+P4 makes an A7th.

These "power chords" are very useful in rock, which is much of what I play nowadays. When your lowest note is B, as in the standard E9th, it's hard to comp rhythm in a rock band. Of course, this tuning doesn't have some of the nice midrange transitions that a standard E9th has, but it can still sound real country on the top 5 strings when that flavor is required.

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/b0b.gif" width="64" height="64">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (F Diatonic), Sierra Laptop 8 (D13), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6), Roland Handsonic[This message was edited by Bobby Lee on 27 December 2002 at 05:34 PM.]

John Macy · Post by **John Macy** » 27 Dec 2002 8:06 pm

My SD10 Fessenden has 4 pedals and 8 knees...works for me.

Jimmie Brown · Post by **Jimmie Brown** » 28 Dec 2002 8:21 am

WELL SAID ROGER

jIMMIE

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 28 Dec 2002 9:33 am

8 knees? Whoa!

Jerry Hayes · Post by **Jerry Hayes** » 28 Dec 2002 4:57 pm

Hey James,
What I'd do with a single 10 with 4 floor and 5 knees is as follows. You can get a bunch of B6th stuff as well as the country and rock things.

First of all I'd tune the basic tuning like b0b but almost everything else would be different.

LKL would lower 5 and 9 B's to Bb.

LKV would raise string 4 E to F# and and raise string 10 E to F#.

LKR would lower string 2 and sting 8 to D.

P1 would lower strings 3 and 6 G#'s to G.

P2 would raise strings 5 & 9 B's to C#.

P3 would raise strings 3 & 6 G#'s to A.

P4 would raise string 5 B to C# and raise string 6 G# to A#(Bb).

RKL would raise strings 4 & 8 to F and you could lower string 10 E to C# if you wanted.

RKR would lower strings 4 & 8 E's to Eb(D#).

I think this tuning would give you the maximum of all worlds for an SD-10 and wouldn't limit you to just playing only country or three chord rock. You could do some jazzy things too if you had a mind to and western swing would be a breeze.

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Livin' in the Past and the Future with a 12 string Mooney Universal tuning.

James Quackenbush · Post by **James Quackenbush** » 28 Dec 2002 7:01 pm

Holly Cow !!...You guys are amazing...I love these examples....I'm not all that experienced either, but I am surely enjoying this read !!.
I'm copying all of this down...I'm starting to realize that I am really better off with an SD-10 steel to order new....There are so many variables with 10 strings, and a few pedals and knee's that I really don't need to get a D-10 just yet...
I saw the Z lever system video, and loved the simplicity, but it looked like there was some bar slants, and string bending goin on, and I'm having enough trouble putting my foot on the right pedal, and my knee's on the right levers !!.. I do enjoy listening to Bobbe play though !!...Jim

George Kimery · Post by **George Kimery** » 28 Dec 2002 9:04 pm

James: I would get a 12 string E-9 instead of 10 if it were me. Just add a G# for string 11 and an E for string 12. Since they are just added onto a standard 10 string, you don't have to use them, but they really come in handy if you ever do any fifties, Memphis, or Boogie type songs. Here is my current set-up and it works quite well for me.

LKL raises 4 & 8 to F
LKV lowers 2 and 9 to C#
LKR lowers 2 to D, and 5 and 10 to Bb
P1 lowers 5 to A and 6 to F# (Franklin)
P2 raises 5 and 10 to C#
P3 raises 3, 6, and 11 to A
P4 raises 4 to F# and 5 to C#
RKL lowers 4 and 8 to D#
RKR raises 1 and 7 to G#

Roger Crawford · Post by **Roger Crawford** » 29 Dec 2002 6:39 am

Skip...Mullen! Plays and sounds great.
Roger

Bengt Erlandsen · Post by **Bengt Erlandsen** » 30 Dec 2002 5:06 am

Bobby Lee has a very interesting setup in his post. I would prefer LKV raise 10 string E-F# and move the 4string E-F# to P3. Or maybe let LKV do both 10 & 4 to F#.
I would use 2nd string on RKR to get a halfstop on 8string E-Eb-D.
For me this setup would cover Rock/Jazz/Country or whatever I might think of playing.

Bengt

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 30 Dec 2002 10:05 am

Right. I think most people prefer the 4th string E->F# on the third pedal. That would free up the vertical for the B->A# lower, or maybe for the popular F#->G# changes.

I have been playing with E->F# on LKV for 25 years now, so I'd set up an SD-10 with that change for familiarity. I don't think that it's a great idea for new players, but it's too late for me to change that reflex.

Actually, as a further disclaimer, in the original post James was asking how we would set up an SD-10 if we were ordering one new. My response answers that question for myself, but it's not what I would recommend for someone else. Beginners should stick with a standard E9th until they understand it well enough to extend/change it.

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/b0b.gif" width="64" height="64">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (F Diatonic), Sierra Laptop 8 (D13), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6), Roland Handsonic

Bengt Erlandsen · Post by **Bengt Erlandsen** » 6 Jan 2003 3:17 am

Depending on how much money you would like to spend on a new S10.

All pedal setups will work with either one of the knee setups.

<pre>
Setup for 3 pedals

LKL LKR P1 P2 P3 RKL RKR
F#| | | | | | | |
Eb| | | | | | | |
G#| | | | A | | | |
E | | | | | F#| | |
B | | | C#| | C#| | |
G#| | | | A | | | |
F#| | | | | | | |
E | | | | | | | |
D | | | | | | | |
B | | | C#| | | | |

Setup for 4 pedals
LKL LKR P1 P2 P3 P4 RKL RKR
F#| | | | | | | | |
Eb| | | | | | | | |
G#| | | | A | | | | |
E | | | | | F#| | | |
B | | | C#| | C#| C#| | |
G#| | | | A | | A#| | |
F#| | | | | | | | |
E | | | | | | | | |
D | | | | | | | | |
B | | | C#| | | | | |

Setup for 5 pedals

LKL LKR P1 P2 P3 P4 P5 RKL RKR
F#| | | | | | | | | |
Eb| | | | | | | | | |
G#| | | | | A | | | | |
E | | | | | | F#| | | |
B | | | | C#| | C#| A | | |
G#| | | A#| | A | | F#| | |
F#| | | | | | | | | |
E | | | | | | | | | |
D | | | | | | | | | |
B | | | | C#| | | A | | |

Setup for 5 pedals
LKL LKR P1 P2 P3 P4 P5 RKL RKR
F#| | | | | | | F | | |
Eb| | | | | | | | | |
G#| | | | A | | | | | |
E | | | | | F#| | | | |
B | | | C#| | C#| C#| | | |
G#| | | | A | | A#| | | |
F#| | | | | | | F | | |
E | | | | | | | | | |
D | | | | | | | | | |
B | | | C#| | | | * | | |
P5 might also have 10 string lower B-G#

Combine 1 of the PedalSetups with one of

Setup for 4 kneelevers

LKL LKR P1 P2 P3 RKL RKR
F#| | | | | | | G |
Eb| | | | | |D-C#| |
G#| | | | | | | |
E | F | Eb| | | | | |
B | | | | | | | |
G#| | | | | | | |
F#| | | | | | | G |
E | F | Eb| | | | | |
D | | | | | | C# | |
B | | | | | | | |
RKR could also be changed to
Raise 1 & 7 F#-G#

Setup for 5 kneelevers

LKL LKV LKR P1 P2 P3 RKL RKR
F#| | | | | | | | G |
Eb| | | | | | |D-C#| |
G#| | G | | | | | | |
E | F | | Eb| | | | | |
B | | | | | | | | |
G#| | G | | | | | | |
F#| | | | | | | | G |
E | F | | Eb| | | | | |
D | | | | | | | C# | |
B | | | | | | | | |
LKV could also be changed to
lower 10 & 5 B-Bb instead.

Setup for 6 kneelevers

LKL
LKL LKV LKR P1 P2 P3 RKL RKR
F#| | | | | | | | | G |
Eb| | | | | | | |D-C#| |
G#| | G | | | | | | | |
E | F | | | Eb| | | | | |
B | | | Bb| | | | | | |
G#| | G | | | | | | | |
F#| | | | | | | | | G |
E | F | | | Eb| | | | | |
D | | | | | | | | C# | |
B | | | Bb| | | | | | |

Left and Right knee levers are setup the way they are to maximize
combinations when using left and right knee at the same time.
For all knee setups RKR and RKL might switch Changes.

</pre>

Choose the 3pedals + 4knee setup and you have a standard E9 setup.
Or if you can afford more pedals/levers choose another combination.

Bengt Erlandsen

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 6 Jan 2003 5:12 pm

Bengt, that's a very good summary of the "standard" E9th changes. Thanks.

James Quackenbush · Post by **James Quackenbush** » 6 Jan 2003 5:25 pm

Bengt,
Thanks for elaborating on the subject...I am keeping everything that I have gotten from everyone, and hope to try everything out...My thoughts after this read is to go with a 4 + 5 setup and either add or subtract knee's or footpedals as needed.....Thanks again to all..