I have a problem, and I'd like your input about the solution

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 19 Dec 2012 2:41 pm

My problem is that like all of us, I watch my hands so that I can properly intonate. This is fine under most circumstances, but a couple of days ago I had the opportunity to play for the first time with a local community orchestra, and I had a lot of difficulty following the conductor. This was partly due to my inexperience, and partly due to the fact that I couldn't see her very well because my eyes were focused on my hands.

I've been discussing this with some of the musicians in the orchestra, and a couple of them suggested that I rig up some sort of mirror that will allow me to see the conductor and also look at my hands.

So, I'm asking you all for for your ideas about how, and if possible tried.

Thank you all in advance for your help.

Paul Sutherland · Post by **Paul Sutherland** » 19 Dec 2012 3:00 pm

Can you re-position the steel to some other location in the orchestra where you can have the conductor in your peripheral visual while looking at the fretboard?

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 19 Dec 2012 3:04 pm

Mike, you probably already know the answer.
Practice with a blindfold. And curse that Joe Wright guy who makes playing in tune sans eyes look so easy.
And trust muscle memory and your ears.
I got $3.00 says your eyes are a crutch and your legs are fine

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 19 Dec 2012 3:10 pm

Paul Sutherland wrote:Can you re-position the steel to some other location in the orchestra where you can have the conductor in your peripheral visual while looking at the fretboard?

Hi Paul. We tried that. The conductor and I spent about 15-20 minutes before the rehearsal figuring out where to place the steel so that I could see her. It worked up to a point, but I still wasn't able to see her as well as I needed to.

It seems that rigging up some sort of mirror is the best solution. The question is how.

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 19 Dec 2012 3:17 pm

FWIW, organists routinely use a mirror to watch the conductor, because the organ is typically placed so that the player's back is to the conductor (and audience). There's got to be a way to do that. Might need 2 mirrors though (unless you play with your back to the conductor too!)

Chris Reesor · Post by **Chris Reesor** » 19 Dec 2012 4:52 pm

Maybe an Ipad on a tab rack hooked up to a small webcam.... just a thought.
Good luck( and happy holidays! ) to you.

CR

Ken Becker · Post by **Ken Becker** » 19 Dec 2012 4:56 pm

mike..one of thoes round mirrors like they put on the passenger side of cars might work....ken,,happy holidays

john widgren · Post by **john widgren** » 19 Dec 2012 6:53 pm

When I play with a large orchestra, or in a theater pit or even on a theater stage with bad sightlines, a small video monitor right next to the music on a stand just past the sightline to my hands is the answer. Always has been provided by the venue. Works great.

Ah, the magic of video.

Best JW

Ray Minich · Post by **Ray Minich** » 20 Dec 2012 8:59 am

The blindfold idea works, but it takes many hours. Although not the most accomplished steeler by far... I can play accompaniment well and hit the fret without looking at the fretboard. 50 years of muscle memory training. I don't have a clue why... I can just land where the bar is supposed to be.

Well, that is, until the more complex grips come to pass, then it all falls apart...

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 20 Dec 2012 12:58 pm

You need,,,, Marty Feldman eyes!

Don Drummer · Post by **Don Drummer** » 20 Dec 2012 5:29 pm

You can't whatch the conductor blindfolded. And if could it would take three mirrors; maybe more.

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 20 Dec 2012 5:38 pm

Silly Don. I mean practicing with a blindfold, so you don't need to watch the neck.
Lots of us have learned to do it, and audiences like the extra contact.
More of us need to spend more time with our eyes up

Billy McCombs · Post by **Billy McCombs** » 20 Dec 2012 9:27 pm

I took a small blind spot mirror and put it in front of my strings at a tilt and it does work. As long as the conductor is not to far away with no obstacles between you and her. I would give it a try Mike, worth a try for just a few bucks.

Vincent Lenci · Post by **Vincent Lenci** » 20 Dec 2012 10:07 pm

Tell the conductor to focus on you!
At my open mic, I conducted with a pool cue .... lots o blue dots on them insubordinates! We have an attitude in Jersey!

Ken Byng · Post by **Ken Byng** » 21 Dec 2012 4:33 am

John Billings wrote:You need,,,, Marty Feldman eyes!

I had temporary Marty Feldman eyes the first time I sat close to Tommy White and saw him playing live. They almost came out on stalks.

Will Cowell · Post by **Will Cowell** » 21 Dec 2012 7:53 am

Mike, you need a semi-transparent mirror in front of you. It should be flat, and transmit light straight through. It should be angled at about 45 downwards so you can look through at the conductor, and by reflection, downwards at your hands at the same time.

A simple sheet of glass should do it, although your hands need to be well lit. To balance the two images brightness-wise there would need to be a trace of aluminium evaporated onto the surface you are looking at/through. Not enough to block the image coming from the conductor, but enough to reflect the image of your hands better. Google semi-transmissive mirrors.

Good luck!

Will Cowell

Peter den Hartogh · Post by **Peter den Hartogh** » 21 Dec 2012 8:22 am

Mike, my first public performance was to play Hawaiian guitar in the musical "Blume Von Hawaii" when I was a kid.
The rehearsals went fine and the amp settings were sorted out.
On the night we set up the gear in the Orchestra pit right next to the second violins.

When it was my turn to play the theme solo I panicked because I could not see the conductor properly for the same reasons you had.

Lucky for me I quietly voiced the problem and so the leader of the second violin section simply waved his finger right next to my guitar in sync with the conductor.
Easy! Problem solved.

(This was a once-off performance so he did not have to rescue me every performance.)

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 21 Dec 2012 8:29 am

I just fiddled around with a few mirrors & prisms. A small mirror over either the changer or the tuners lets you see the length of the fretboard, but at a weird angle. to see your hands and the length of the neck would take a pretty long mirror - 3" by 18"? And mounted on posts that rose straight up from the rear edge, high enough to not interfere with your sheet music. Not to beat a dead horse, but the old H.U.F. at least gets your eyes looking above the tip of the bar's nose, not down through the strings.

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopi ... +fretboard

The video monitor sounds good...

Peter den Hartogh · Post by **Peter den Hartogh** » 21 Dec 2012 12:59 pm

Mirrors will make the conductor appear too far away.

Maybe get a very cheap handycam with a flip out LCD display
and an optical zoomlens (to get a close-up of the conductor).

Mount this on the PSG front leg or apron in such a way that you can easily see
the LCD display right in front of your fretboard.

As you are not recording, you do not need to be concerned about what
media to use (DVD, Tape, Hard Disk, Flash Card).
In fact, the camera does not even have to work, as long as the display and the lens works.
Don't forget the power supply.(Keep it far from the pickup)

And make sure that nobody plonks himself in front of the lens, blocking your view.
(Or use a high mount)

BTW, you could even use a mobile smart phone for this with the correct mount.
But first make sure it does not interfere with the pickup.

Jack Aldrich · Post by **Jack Aldrich** » 21 Dec 2012 4:58 pm

Mike - I don't know how much this will help, but Alan Aakaka has me playing with my eyes closed to improve my intonation. It works, and it helps when I'm making contact with the rest of the band. - Jack

Jim Hoke · Post by **Jim Hoke** » 22 Dec 2012 2:40 pm

Periferal vision, Mike. That's the only way I can imagine it done.

admin · Post by **b0b** » 22 Dec 2012 2:48 pm

You only need to look at your hands when you change frets. It's just like reading music - you look down at the fretboard now and then, but most of the time you are looking at the music (right?).

Memorize the music, and watch the conductor instead. Even in a band situation, there are times when you have to watch the bandleader to cue endings and such. You can't be looking at you hands all the time. It's not good.

Oliver Samland · Post by **Oliver Samland** » 22 Dec 2012 4:05 pm

Mike,
I could imagine that it might help to have a little version of the conductor right by your strings. But no matter if you use a mirror or a screen, you still have to get used to split your attention.
Anyway, those adjustable bicyle rear mirrors look like they'll fit a steel guitar leg:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bicycle-WUDI-Fl ... 20c253cf03

happy holidays,
Ollie

Billy Carr · Post by **Billy Carr** » 23 Dec 2012 1:08 am

I wish you only the best on your playing jobs but is this something you really want to do. The thoughts on the mirrors and/or other things, to me, seems to indicate that maybe a steel guitar is not really in a steel friendly environment there.

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 23 Dec 2012 5:01 am

Thanks to all for the suggestions. Peter, I like your idea about the handycam. I will investigate that first.

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I have a problem, and I'd like your input about the solution

I have a problem, and I'd like your input about the solution

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