B toBb or G# to G change.Your preference?

Michael Frede · Post by **Michael Frede** » 13 Dec 2002 11:24 am

My S-10 has the F# to G change (1,7)on the RKL.I'm thinking of going to a B to Bb (5,10)or G# to G (3,6) on this lever.I'm interested in how many of you out there use these changes and why(examples would be helpfull as I'm still kinda new at this).Or,should I leave it alone and why.THANX!

Allan Thompson · Post by **Allan Thompson** » 13 Dec 2002 11:36 am

Hi Michael,
How about leaving the first string the way it is or going to a full tone raise but lowering the 6th a whole tone with a split for the G note. That`s if it`s an all pull guitar?

Scott Swartz · Post by **Scott Swartz** » 13 Dec 2002 12:05 pm

Getting the G by raising F# instead of lowering G# allows you to keep the root of the dom7 pedals down. The F#-G change toggles the chord between a 6th and a dom7.

If the choice is between changing that lever to G#-G or B-Bb, I think the B-Bb is a more valuable change of the two.

-you get the missing scale note at the IV fret (fret 8 in G)

-you can do a tunable split with the A pedal to get a minor chord (pedals down plus B-Bb = A-C-E-A on 6,5,4,3)

Here's a recent thread on the B-Bb.
http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum5/HTML/004466.html [This message was edited by Scott Swartz on 13 December 2002 at 12:07 PM.]

Roger Rettig · Post by **Roger Rettig** » 13 Dec 2002 12:29 pm

I think there are far more options available to you with the B to Bb lower - that 'pull' can really change the 'landscape' for you![This message was edited by Roger Rettig on 13 December 2002 at 02:07 PM.]

John Knight · Post by **John Knight** » 13 Dec 2002 4:00 pm

A change I hear out of Tommy White is the B-A. Going from the C# down to the A with the release of pedal 1(3) and the vertical knee. Just what are the thoughts about that.

I run 1 and 7 up a whole tone and 6 down a half. Works for me.

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D 10 Thomas with 8&6, '61'D-10 Sho-Bud 8&3
S12 Knight 4&4
Nashville 400 and Profex II
81' Fender Twin JBL's
Asleep at the Steel

Dennis Boyd · Post by **Dennis Boyd** » 15 Dec 2002 11:32 pm

Michael,

All 3 of those changes are good. If I had a S-10 I'd use the standard 3 pedals along with 6 knee levers (4 left & 2 right). The 3 lever changes you mentioned along with the somewhat standard lever changes (E's down to D#; E's up to F; and strings 2 & 9 down to C#). With these 9 changes you can play just about anything the E9th tuning has to offer.

If I had to choose only 1 out of the 3 knee levers you mentioned it would be either the one on it (F#'s up to G) or the B's down to Bb. The first one for A7th chords (E minor triads) or the second one for F#9th chords.

Try to get them all. You won't be disappointed.

Roger Rettig · Post by **Roger Rettig** » 16 Dec 2002 10:11 am

I had my 'B's dropping a full step on my LeGrande S10, and I really liked it. It's not on my LGIII D10, but I'm going to have it on my new guitar, along with a 'feel-stop'.

It's amazing what a difference that extra semitone seems to make to the low-end range of the 10-string E9...

Jerry Hayes · Post by **Jerry Hayes** » 18 Dec 2002 2:41 am

I'm currently only using 4 knee levers on my U-12 but the B to Bb is one of them! I couldn't live without that one...JH

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Livin' in the Past and the Future with a 12 string Mooney Universal tuning.

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 18 Dec 2002 10:42 am

As a universal player, I'd have to agree with Jerry (we gotta stick together), both from the 6th side and the 9th side of the universal equation.

For the universal player, both changes have important uses on both E9 and B6. G# to G is the equivalent of A to Ab on C6, which can be a very useful change. Unlike Jerry, the Fessy I've been playing a lot lately has 8 levers, so it has both changes. My push-pull only has B to Bb and I'd never want to sacrifice that change if I had 4 or more levers. For me, the Bb lever is about #4 priority and G# to G #7, if that says anything.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2000 Fessenden S-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro

Bengt Erlandsen · Post by **Bengt Erlandsen** » 18 Dec 2002 1:11 pm

The thing to consider when having this or that change on RKL is what is on RKR because you can not use them at the same time. Also important is what is on the other knee because they can be used together with RKL

Having 1&7 raise F#-G does a lot more than give the dom7 with A+B ped (can also be played 1 fret higher with E's - Eb and halfpedal A) With both F#-G and the Bpedal you get all the low notes of the Eminor pentatonic scale, starting with the 5th on string 10 B D E G A B E A(Eb)G. Having the G and G# (b3rd and 3rd, minor and major note) next to each other in the open position is nice on some types music but not all. I like it, other people might not find it useful. For doing different scale things on string 10 9 8 7 6 5 the G note on string 7 certainly has its place.

The 6&3 from G#-G should not be on the same knee that does 2Eb-D-C# & 9D-C# because they are most likely to be used at the same time.

Same goes for the B-Bb change. It also goes along with the lowering of 2&9.

Both changes are good alone but I see the 2&9 lower as a important change together with G#-G or B-Bb

The B-Bb should be available at the same time as both E's-F.

Dropping 6 G#-F# (or together w/5 B-A) is also nice. Just make sure you can drop E's to Eb at the same time.

Having 1F#-G# and 2Eb-E has a certain sound to it and seems to be used a lot. I prefer only the raise on the 1st string since raising the 2nd string ruins the Vchord on strings 5 2 1

If I only had 4knee levers I would keep the 1&7 F#-G along with 2&9lowers(same knee opposite direction) and E's-Eb and F on the other knee.

If you don't find any use for raises on 1&7 then you can try 6 G#-A# (works great with Apedal or A+B with or without E's to Eb or F

Or string 4 E-F# with/without 2Eb-E

These are just my thoughts about some changes to put on the knee-levers. There will always be a compromise to what you put on a certain knee/lever once you have more than 1 lever on each knee.

There are new things to discover every day so all there is to it is to play, play, play.

Bengt Erlandsen