HELP! The universal bug is biting me again. I know some of these things have been discussed here before, but I got nothing from a search. Guess I didn't put in the correct info....anyway...... I played D-10 for about 10 years [I didn't play much on C6 at that time], then took up the U-14 about 10 years ago for some 5 or so years before returning to the D-10 8/8. Since I've been playing the D-10 this time, I have added some changes that I couldn't live without if I go back to the Universal...namely, the 1 and 2 raise [++1, +1 resp.] & 6 string --1 w/split. The guitar has to have at least 13, maybe 14 strings [probably a Sierra 8/7] as I am not going to give up the middle D/C# feature.
Yes, I know the D can be made off the middle B, but it's not the same.
The 2 inside knees, I think, will give me the other pulls I'm used to on the C neck.
Anybody have these changes on a Universal or know any reason the 1,2 and 6 change would interfere w/the "universal" aspect of the tuning? The
lower D/C#? Differences in Tone v. D10?
I remember the Sierra 14 changer I had before got pretty full pretty quick.
'Preciate any feedback especially from folks that have experimented w/said changes. I going to sit down and analyze the thing, but thought some of you guys might offer some insight as to things I might not have thought of. Thanx much.JO
Universal Bug
Moderator: Shoshanah Marohn
-
Jerry Overstreet
- Posts: 12622
- Joined: 11 Jul 2000 12:01 am
- Location: Louisville Ky
I have those changes on my D-12 and had them on my 13 string Fessy Extended E9/Universal. Perhaps if you search for my name back six months or so ago, you can find some posts about it. Terry Wendt now has this Fessy so maybe he will chime in as well.
One of the reasons I went back to a D-12 is that I couldn't get all of the E9th knee lever changes and the C6th changes without going to two sets of levers. That plus having to hold a lever to play in 6th mode, which precludes using other levers on the same knee, helped me decide to go back to a double neck.
------------------
Jim Smith jimsmith94@attbi.com
-=Dekley D-12 10&12=-
-=Fessenden D-12 (coming soon)=-
Stereo Steel rig w/Boss GX-700
IVL SteelRider w/JV-880
One of the reasons I went back to a D-12 is that I couldn't get all of the E9th knee lever changes and the C6th changes without going to two sets of levers. That plus having to hold a lever to play in 6th mode, which precludes using other levers on the same knee, helped me decide to go back to a double neck.
------------------
Jim Smith jimsmith94@attbi.com
-=Dekley D-12 10&12=-
-=Fessenden D-12 (coming soon)=-
Stereo Steel rig w/Boss GX-700
IVL SteelRider w/JV-880
-
Jerry Overstreet
- Posts: 12622
- Joined: 11 Jul 2000 12:01 am
- Location: Louisville Ky
-
Rainer Hackstaette
- Posts: 442
- Joined: 10 Jun 2001 12:01 am
- Location: Bohmte, Germany
- Contact:
Jerry,
I have a Sierra Session S14 that is set up like this:
<font face="monospace" size="3"><pre>
Lock LL LV LR A B C 4 5 6 7 8 RL RR
1 F# G G
2 D# C# C# D
3 G# A
4 E Eb F F# E Eb
5 B Bb C# C# A C#
6 G# F# A F# A#
7 F# F G#
8 E Eb F D Eb
9 D C# C#
10 B C# C
11 G# A
12 E F Eb
13 B C# Ab
14(E)
</pre></font>
The low E on string 14 is not of much use (it just goes "thunk") so I don´t have it on the guitar right now.
I have an extra knee lever on the far left of the guitar for the change lock. I couldn´t lock the normal E-Eb (RKL), because the pickup switch in the apron is in the way. I additionally lower the 9th D to C# on the lock. I had wanted to lower that D to B, but the throw was too long for the lock. The C# gives me the equivalent of a low D on C6, which has been discussed on this forum before.
I look at the setup as two different tunings rather than a universal one: without the lock it is extended E9, with the lock an almost straight B6 (except for string 9).
What I´m missing on the B6 is raising 5 B to C (C to C# on C6) and raising and lowering 6 G# a half tone on a lever (A to Bb and Ab resp. on C6) These latter changes are there, but on the B-pedal and LKR, where they are awkward to reach and combine with other pedals, unless I play with both feet. I would like them on a 6th and 7th lever like I have them on my D-10s, but the changer will not allow any more raises and lowers on strings 5 and 6.
There are 2 splits on the E9 side: A-pedal with LKV to C, B-pedal with LKR to G.
In order to have all these changes and the split-rods on Sierra´s triple raise/double lower changer, I use 3 "tandem pulls", because I need 4 raises on string 5, 3 lowers on 2, and 3 lowers on 8. The triple lowers I only need because of the extra lock-lever. All in all there are 37 pulls on the changer.
For a U12/13/14 steel that really has ALL the changes of a D10, a changer like Excel´s 5R/5L would be a good idea.
Regards,
Rainer
------------------
Remington D 10 8+7, Sierra Crown D 10 gearless 8+8, Sierra Session S 14 gearless 8+5, Peavey Session 400 LTD
I have a Sierra Session S14 that is set up like this:
<font face="monospace" size="3"><pre>
Lock LL LV LR A B C 4 5 6 7 8 RL RR
1 F# G G
2 D# C# C# D
3 G# A
4 E Eb F F# E Eb
5 B Bb C# C# A C#
6 G# F# A F# A#
7 F# F G#
8 E Eb F D Eb
9 D C# C#
10 B C# C
11 G# A
12 E F Eb
13 B C# Ab
14(E)
</pre></font>
The low E on string 14 is not of much use (it just goes "thunk") so I don´t have it on the guitar right now.
I have an extra knee lever on the far left of the guitar for the change lock. I couldn´t lock the normal E-Eb (RKL), because the pickup switch in the apron is in the way. I additionally lower the 9th D to C# on the lock. I had wanted to lower that D to B, but the throw was too long for the lock. The C# gives me the equivalent of a low D on C6, which has been discussed on this forum before.
I look at the setup as two different tunings rather than a universal one: without the lock it is extended E9, with the lock an almost straight B6 (except for string 9).
What I´m missing on the B6 is raising 5 B to C (C to C# on C6) and raising and lowering 6 G# a half tone on a lever (A to Bb and Ab resp. on C6) These latter changes are there, but on the B-pedal and LKR, where they are awkward to reach and combine with other pedals, unless I play with both feet. I would like them on a 6th and 7th lever like I have them on my D-10s, but the changer will not allow any more raises and lowers on strings 5 and 6.
There are 2 splits on the E9 side: A-pedal with LKV to C, B-pedal with LKR to G.
In order to have all these changes and the split-rods on Sierra´s triple raise/double lower changer, I use 3 "tandem pulls", because I need 4 raises on string 5, 3 lowers on 2, and 3 lowers on 8. The triple lowers I only need because of the extra lock-lever. All in all there are 37 pulls on the changer.
For a U12/13/14 steel that really has ALL the changes of a D10, a changer like Excel´s 5R/5L would be a good idea.
Regards,
Rainer
------------------
Remington D 10 8+7, Sierra Crown D 10 gearless 8+8, Sierra Session S 14 gearless 8+5, Peavey Session 400 LTD
-
Pete Burak
- Posts: 6530
- Joined: 2 Oct 1998 12:01 am
- Location: Portland, OR USA
-
Jerry Overstreet
- Posts: 12622
- Joined: 11 Jul 2000 12:01 am
- Location: Louisville Ky
Rainer, thanx for sharing your comments and tuning...interesting...
Yeah, I 'member about the low E....never used it much...tees off the bass player
I have looked over the Excel, but I really liked the Sierra Crown series I had before. Don't know anything about the Session series as to whether they are any easier to change around.. the SCM14SE was a major pain to alter the coped. on.
Pete, thanx for the update on the new Sierra changers...Do you know if this changer is available on a Crown? .
I'll probably be looking used though, at the prices these guitars go for...nice to know, tho.
Yeah, I 'member about the low E....never used it much...tees off the bass player
I have looked over the Excel, but I really liked the Sierra Crown series I had before. Don't know anything about the Session series as to whether they are any easier to change around.. the SCM14SE was a major pain to alter the coped. on.
Pete, thanx for the update on the new Sierra changers...Do you know if this changer is available on a Crown? .
I'll probably be looking used though, at the prices these guitars go for...nice to know, tho.
-
Rainer Hackstaette
- Posts: 442
- Joined: 10 Jun 2001 12:01 am
- Location: Bohmte, Germany
- Contact:
Jerry,
the Session series has square cross shafts. Changing the setup is easy. The round cross shafts of the Crown are indeed a pain. Other differences: the Session has smaller diameter pull rods, the rails in the undercarriage, where the cross shafts attach, are a lot smaller and lighter, the square legs go into sockets inside the body and are fastened with a quarter turn and a small locking lever, the gearless head tuners can be tuned with your fingertips - no wrench is needed. All in all the Session is less massive and much lighter than the Crown, but just as stable. On Sierra´s website you can see a photo of the underside of a D-10. www.sierrasteelguitar.com
A 4R/3L changer is an excellent idea - could have been mine
! Now why isn´t that advertized on the Sierra site? Could older guitas be upgraded? I guess I´ll have to email Tom Baker.
Jerry, I have photos of nearly every angle of my S-14 (and of a D-10 Crown, as well)that I could email you. If you´re interested, drop me a line.
Regards,
Rainer
------------------
Remington D 10 8+7, Sierra Crown D 10 gearless 8+8, Sierra Session S 14 gearless 8+5, Peavey Session 400 LTD
the Session series has square cross shafts. Changing the setup is easy. The round cross shafts of the Crown are indeed a pain. Other differences: the Session has smaller diameter pull rods, the rails in the undercarriage, where the cross shafts attach, are a lot smaller and lighter, the square legs go into sockets inside the body and are fastened with a quarter turn and a small locking lever, the gearless head tuners can be tuned with your fingertips - no wrench is needed. All in all the Session is less massive and much lighter than the Crown, but just as stable. On Sierra´s website you can see a photo of the underside of a D-10. www.sierrasteelguitar.com
A 4R/3L changer is an excellent idea - could have been mine
! Now why isn´t that advertized on the Sierra site? Could older guitas be upgraded? I guess I´ll have to email Tom Baker.Jerry, I have photos of nearly every angle of my S-14 (and of a D-10 Crown, as well)that I could email you. If you´re interested, drop me a line.
Regards,
Rainer
------------------
Remington D 10 8+7, Sierra Crown D 10 gearless 8+8, Sierra Session S 14 gearless 8+5, Peavey Session 400 LTD