The Rise of the 8 string and Fall of the 10 string PSG!

Jerome Hawkes · Post by **Jerome Hawkes** » 27 Nov 2012 8:54 am

Dale, I'd venture to guess Detroit is full of old steel players - that use to be a major hub of steel activity. Paul Franklin is from there and I think Rusty Rhodes moved back a few years ago. Detroit was once probably the 3rd biggest steel market. Hard to think some of those players aren't still around.

admin · Post by **b0b** » 27 Nov 2012 10:25 am

I'm fundamentally very happy with my 8 string Desert Rose tuned to D6/G.
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Transposed up to E6 it would be G# E C# B G# E C# A.

I can get the E9th 2nd string notes on my 3rd string. My biggest challenge is getting the notes that would normally be available on the first string, whether playing in E9th or C6th "mode". If I ever switch back to 10 strings, it will be to get that first string note.

Richard Plummer · Post by **Richard Plummer** » 27 Nov 2012 10:52 am

Dale:Before you start thinking of taking off,the first 2 strings of your 10 string steel guitar,think of why they are there.They arent just there for you to mute when you arent using them,as if they are something to get in your way,or only to use occassionally.
I take Lessons from Ron Elliott.I dont know how many times he stressed to me and still does,the importance of the first 2 strings.They will get you out of so many jams if you will use them.With them it is possible to play so many tunes on one fret.Remove them and you have just taken away your safety net.

Fred Glave · Post by **Fred Glave** » 27 Nov 2012 11:11 am

How could I ever get by without my C pedal E to F# unison with 1st string? Release C pedal and then lower the E. Or my climb down to the dominant 7th using strings 3, 1, 4, 2 then lower 2 a half?? Just two little reasons (among a ton) for me to keep those two top strings.

Drew Howard · Post by **Drew Howard** » 27 Nov 2012 11:47 am

Dale,

This may have been explained elsewhere, but the chromatic strings were put in positions 1 and/or 1 & 2 to make the basic tuning(s) more "strummable".

Today's guitars are the result of an evolutionary process spanning 60+ years based on the minds and sweat of many great players and builders, from Bud Isaacs to Buddy Emmons (both alive and well) and beyond.

You are the beneficiary here, so slow down and learn your instrument !

Did I miss anything/anyone?

thanks,
Drew

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 27 Nov 2012 2:04 pm

Jim Cohen wrote:Donny, perhaps you might prefer a monophonic instrument then, perhaps a clarinet? Truly, chords are overrated, don't you think? And by the way, who was the numbskull who designed the frickin' piano with 12 keys when I only have TEN fingers! What am I supposed to do... learn to move them around or something? Sheesh! Gimme a break man.

Thank you, Jim. You speak like a true professional.

Les Anderson · Post by **Les Anderson** » 27 Nov 2012 2:19 pm

I bounce from a D8 to a D10 all the time and do use all ten strings on the D10. Mind you, I do a lot of string pulling to move closer to E9th on the D10 so the top two strings are in full play almost all of the time.

I have more trouble going back to the D8 after a full night on the D10 rather than the other way around. Those extra two strings really do a lot once one learns how to use them.

Tom Wolverton · Post by **Tom Wolverton** » 27 Nov 2012 9:09 pm

I play a D-10 Shobud PSG and a D-8 Williams PSG. (and also a D-8 Stringmaster non-pedal). There are definite limitations to the D-8 Willy. I would not recommend an 8-string PSG to someone, unless, they've already gotten the hang of the standard E-9th 10 string. Just my opinion. I love my 8 string necks, but there are certain passages and licks I just can't play well.

I surf on a weird surfboard, too. I would never recommend it to anyone wanting to learn how to surf now-a-days, however. But sometimes, it's sorta fun being the freak.

But at the end of the day, it's about making music. Some do it on 8, some do it on 6, some do it on 14 strings. It's all good and it's why, we as steel players are so diverse.

Dale Kath · Post by **Dale Kath** » 28 Nov 2012 5:55 am

Well said Tom! I agree with your last sentence!

Dave Zirbel · Post by **Dave Zirbel** » 28 Nov 2012 6:00 am

Here's Sneaky Pete rippin' it up on 8 strings.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzgDzTmegr0

Dale Kath · Post by **Dale Kath** » 28 Nov 2012 6:12 am

deleted

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 28 Nov 2012 6:17 am

Kinda the wrong place to launch a manifesto, hmmm. Like telling b@njo jokes at a bluegrass convention or wearing a tux to a nudist club.

Fred Glave · Post by **Fred Glave** » 28 Nov 2012 11:42 am

There's a nice looking Jackson SD8 for sale here on the forum.

Bill Howard · Post by **Bill Howard** » 28 Nov 2012 12:15 pm

Heres an instrument for the Multi String challenged player enjoy

Russ Tkac · Post by **Russ Tkac** » 28 Nov 2012 12:27 pm

Nice Dave!

Bob Carlucci · Post by **Bob Carlucci** » 28 Nov 2012 4:22 pm

You guys are nasty.. no kidding.
so the guy likes an 8 string pedal steel, and its all he wants and needs.. Great, more power to him.. I don't buy it either, but I certainly wouldn't ridicule, disparage and humiliate the guy for voicing his opinion on a PEDAL STEEL FORUM... Would you treat Pete Klienow[God rest his soul]this way?.. All he ever wanted or needed was an 8 stringer as well.. Anyone care to call his raggedy old 8 stringer limited??.. You guys really need to dig yourselves... what snotty attitudes... bob

Dale Kath · Post by **Dale Kath** » 28 Nov 2012 5:35 pm

Hey Mr. C! Thanks for the props!
Dale

Dale Kath · Post by **Dale Kath** » 28 Nov 2012 5:42 pm

Nice add, Dave. Sneaky Pete is actually the player who inspired me to try and play the psg. Particularly the Flying Burrito Brother song - Devil in Disguise. I cannot get enough of their video of this song.

Dave Zirbel · Post by **Dave Zirbel** » 28 Nov 2012 6:40 pm

Me too,

along with the hippie rock steel players of that era. I first heard that song at a Grateful Dead show. The sound crew was piping Gilded Palace LP through the sound system before the show. That song cranked through a massive sound system really blew my mind.

Dave Zirbel · Post by **Dave Zirbel** » 28 Nov 2012 6:43 pm

Curly Chalker was also not limited musically by 8 strings. I think his Big Hits was recorded with a Fender D-8 1000, exept for possibly one tune...so I hear. I wasn't there....

Chris Walke · Post by **Chris Walke** » 30 Nov 2012 1:06 pm

Dale - I've been on PSG less than a year. My advice would be to hold on to that 10-string and continue to play it...with all 10 strings. I've played lead guitar & lap steel for years, moved to pedals last February. The 2 high strings were just a novelty to me at first, but as I dig deeper into PSG, I'm finding, usually by happy accident, cool ways to incorporate those notes into chords (they can be very lush, & sometimes very weird) & into single note runs.

I've barely tapped into the possibilities, but I think those 2 strings may clinch the genius of the E9 tuning. And their position actually keeps them out of the way until you need them. I think, because I played lead guitar & lap steel before PSG, I consider my 3rd string to be the first string, and the first pair are "auxiliary" strings that are called into action when needed.

First thing I found when messing with strings 1 & 2 was a cool descending line, and when I played it, it became clear that these strings aren't there recklessly. Place your bar straight across the strings, anywhere you want, press the A pedal, then play the strings in this order (just let them ring for a lush sound, or palm block for a cleaner sound):
3 - 1 - 4 - 2 - 5, then slowly release the A pedal. It's simple, and pretty. And it's the tiniest example of something you can do with those 2 pesky strings. Whenever I'm working on a chord progression, I consciously try to incorporate those two strings...sometimes I find something really cool, sometimes I don't.

Anyway, giving up on those strings because you stumble on them would be like giving up on finger picks simply because they feel wrong at first. Persevere.

Dave Marshall · Post by **Dave Marshall** » 30 Nov 2012 2:45 pm

I am a novice, and I have fun with this open G tuning. No weird grips to bother with.
I am planning on swapping the V and K pulls so I don't need both feet when raising note 1 to 2 while pushing A & B pedals.
I play a different style to most of you, using mainly triads. Many simple tunes can be played without moving from the root fret. This is because the G & E levers give me a so-called down-chord at root.
Pulls V, C and m are not really needed, but I built this PSG myself and was experimenting.
If you have a spare PSG and tune it with A, B, G, and E pulls, see how quickly your five-year-old kid can learn to play "Teenage Queen", among others, at root, in triads.

Dale Kath · Post by **Dale Kath** » 1 Dec 2012 6:35 am

Chris, thanks for the info. I would consider keeping my 10 string, but it is a Fender student model, and man are those strings close together. Maybe it was meant to be, cuz I can't stop looking at all the psg,s for sale on EBay. Someone has been listing a beautiful ZB custom D-10 for months that I would love to own. ( course I would have to remove the top taw strings)

James Taylor · Post by **James Taylor** » 1 Dec 2012 11:07 am

hi, I have a fender 8 string pedal steel and when I got it last year it was tuned to B6; so I set about scratching my head and brain! Eventually I turned it around and got into the mechanics , fixing a few cables and decided to tune E9 chromatic and I am well pleased; well not exactly I would love a 10 string Sho-bud with four K/N. Then I would be VVVVVVEEEEERRRRYYYY happy. I love reading what you all say and best wishes to you all. However I do understand where our friend is comming from.I would keep trying YOURS AYE JAMES TAYLOR SCOTLAND

Alan Brookes · Post by **Alan Brookes** » 1 Dec 2012 11:28 am

Geoff Barnes wrote:Been gassin' for one of these little beauties. Who knows? maybe we will be able to "evolve' the psg in the same way?...

That's hilarious. Maybe I'll design a one-string pedal steel. How many pedals and knee levers do you think it will need?

No, wait a moment, Pythagoras already invented the one string steel guitar: he called it the Sonometer.

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