Bars for Lap what gives the best sustain?

Mark Davis · Post by **Mark Davis** » 13 Jul 2000 4:13 pm

What type of bar should I get for the best sustain? Is it the bigger diameter or the material the bar is made from that makes it sustain more?

Is there a certain tonebar that sounds better than all others?

I've got several diffferent bars a Stevens and a MSA and an old National bar thats really small 1/2" dismeter and they all sound different and have different sustain.

So I guess I'm looking for a bar thats heavy and sustains really good bot not too heavy to move around and is finished really smooth.

Any advice will be appreciated.

Mark van Allen · Post by **Mark van Allen** » 13 Jul 2000 9:19 pm

Mark, I use the John Pearse "thermo-cryonic" tone bars and I've been thrilled with them for tone and quality- they're not plated so the finish doesn't wear off. I like a slightly heavier bar, so use the 1" on pedal steel and a "normal" 7/8" Pedal type bar on my 8 string lap and non-pedal guitars. the tone and sustain are great, I can't rave enough about these great bars. Tell 'em Mark sent you...

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Mark van Allen-"Blueground Undergrass" Pedal, Non-Pedal, Lap, and Dobro

Ray Montee · Post by **Ray Montee** » 13 Jul 2000 9:26 pm

These other Forumites are sooooooo far ahead of me in expertise but I've been using an old Buddy Emmons bar, kinda short (small hands) and kinda heavy (like the picker himself)that is, I'd have to imagine, is stainless steel
It's not coated, and just shines. Vibrato, used in a reasonable fashion, will make any bar "work" except perhaps wood or plastic. Probably ANY good stainless steel bar will do you good.

Ray Montee · Post by **Ray Montee** » 13 Jul 2000 9:29 pm

An afterthought: The kind of strings you choose to use, will likely have MORE to do with the sound than what bar you select. Those that come packaged usually sound like the dickens; string noises, or dead/dull sounds. This is, of course, only my opinion.

Billy Jones · Post by **Billy Jones** » 13 Jul 2000 9:31 pm

Hello Mark.. I like to use a 3/4" bar on a lap steel. Once you get used to the weight, it's pretty easy to handle with the slants. As far as the sustain is concerned, I think it depends on the amount of pressure you use on the bar and behind the strings when you dampen. You are bound to get more sustain with a light pressure on the bar and a lighter mute behind with the little finger. I've tried it every way I can think of over the years so I believe that the trick is in how you apply the pressure.
... Billy

mikey · Post by **mikey** » 14 Jul 2000 8:38 am

I personally use a dunlop 920 pedal steel bar for everything....I used to use a Red Rajah which I still do occasionally for the Weis....but still pedal steel size, (I think it's 7/8x 3.25) but sustain is better w/the hardened chrome, string noise is less w/ the rajah,
Mike

Lefty · Post by **Lefty** » 15 Jul 2000 10:36 am

I have always used a Stevens for lap, since I started out on lap and dobro I guess. I used a dunlop for steel, and I guess the more mass, the better the sustain. A lot of steel players who also switch off to lap, or dobro use the big bar exclusively. For me, I got use to the stevens for dobro and lap. It is a lot easier to hold and control, and to move quickly for pulloffs.

Andy Volk · Post by **Andy Volk** » 15 Jul 2000 3:30 pm

My favorite is the John Pierce Thermocryonic bar. 2nd would be a Dunlop Jerry Byrd bar for size though it's a bit light.

Jim Eller · Post by **Jim Eller** » 15 Jul 2000 5:43 pm

For my Scheerhorn (reso), I really like the Scheerhorn bar. Capo too.

Everything he makes is grrrrrreat.

George Keoki Lake · Post by **George Keoki Lake** » 19 Jul 2000 9:56 pm

Quite often, no matter what bar you use, you'll come across a steel guitar that has no sustain quality at all. Often due to the body material used.

John Tipka · Post by **John Tipka** » 20 Jul 2000 6:08 am

And, for example, here's a case where the bar means absolutely nothing. I'm repairing a triple neck Stringmaster for Herb Hanawahine that has no sustain on one neck because of a nearly dead pickup which needs to be remagnetized. (I'll make a new pickup for it).
Natural or artificial harmonics are almost an impossibility for him on that neck, and harmonics are his signature. His association with Eddie Kamae and The Sons of Hawai`i and the previous stylings of steel players Gabby Pahinui and David Rogers who preceded him in that group reveals his flawless intonation and crystal clear natural and artificial harmonics. When you play all three necks in song, one bad neck can be a real handicap.

John

George Keoki Lake · Post by **George Keoki Lake** » 20 Jul 2000 10:18 am

How right you are John! And speaking of handicap, Herb is anything but handicapped when it comes to those gorgeous harmonics...the only handicap he has is that handy cap he wears when he is playing. Seldom seen without it.

Pete Grant · Post by **Pete Grant** » 20 Jul 2000 10:04 pm

I, too, use the John Pierce Thermocryonic bar. It's really great. I have all 3 models and use them for different steels. I especially like the small one for using 2 steels at once. The medium one I use on dobro and the fatter one I use on 10-string pedal steel and sometimes on my 12. I've checked them out extensively with all kinds of other bars and these bars come out on top every time.

For a "notched" bar, I like the Shubb SP-2. It's designed for being able to do reverse slants without losing the bar. At least that was my intention when I worked with Rick Shubb to come up with it.

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Pete
www.petegrant.com

Kevin Reckmo · Post by **Kevin Reckmo** » 22 Jul 2000 9:46 pm

Is there a website for purchase of the John Pierce bars?

Thanks

)

David Stehman · Post by **David Stehman** » 22 Jul 2000 10:52 pm

Learned with a Stevens that came with my old
rd neck Dobro@, switched to a Ron Tipton in 88 after trying Jerry D's, bot the Dobro@ bar in 96, the Lap Dawg (Tut Taylor) in Feb,
and the shubb SP1 last week. Shubb's faster for me moving across strings within 2/3 frets. Lap Dawg and Tipton best for sustain on slower work, and the Dobro@ Seems like a redesign of the Stevens IMO) best for slants(what funbling little I can do.) The Stevens is neat because Mike Auldridge uses it. Got a 10 string-length round bullet chrome from Ted Smith with my Oahu lap, which
is good for smoother, slower, shorter jump lap and reso. Use these on: 88 Reed,new Melobro resin reso, and 8 string Melobar lap. What about the Pearce Thermo? Thanks for talking about this. This is a GREAT forum!
Dave Stehman

Lew Collins · Post by **Lew Collins** » 23 Jul 2000 4:54 am

I use the Shubb SP2 or sometimes the SP3 which has a round nose. Alot easier to handle than the old Stevens I started with! I use the Shubb mostly because that's what Sally Van Meter recommends. And because I like it better than any of the old steels I have.