Pedal Steel with a Flatpick - Blasphemy?

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 14 Nov 2002 9:10 am

I am now getting confident enough about my abilities to get through a song on the pedal steel, but I am also one of two guitar players in my band. At practices, I just slip on a middle finger fingerpick and use my flatpick to get the other notes. It's much faster, and psychologically easier to to adjust to, as I use my middle finger a lot when playing standard electric guitar too. I think it's going to be shortly worthwhile to take my psg to gigs, but I'm wondering if this flatpick business is going to eventually hurt my development on the instrument. Sometimes I play the psg with no picks at all for a softer sound too.

Jim Smith · Post by **Jim Smith** » 14 Nov 2002 9:18 am

You could add another pick on your ring finger. Junior Brown and Dick Meiss switch back and forth between six string and steel and play that way.

Michael Holland · Post by **Michael Holland** » 14 Nov 2002 9:40 am

Traditionalists use a plastic thumbpick and two metal fingerpicks.

These type of threads always bring out a majority of "Well, so and so uses (fill in the blank), so there is no right way or wrong way". Don't go on the ratio of responses you'll get here. If you want to sound like the steel guitar greats (and some have said they don't!), get yourself a set of picks and work on getting used to them. I can go back and forth (fingerpicks to flatpick) with no problem at all.

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Fessenden SD10 - Mesa/Boogie amps

Michael Haselman · Post by **Michael Haselman** » 14 Nov 2002 9:53 am

David: I've been playing both instruments (as well as fiddle) professionally for over 20 years, and I agree with Michael Holland. If you do it your way, unless you're a prodigy, it sounds like you'll be a good guitar player and a half-a** steel player. My philosophy has always been to follow the masters on an instrument before you go off on your own. You'll get used to flipping off the picks, standing up and grabbing your plectrum. All, IMHO, of course.

Johan Jansen · Post by **Johan Jansen** » 14 Nov 2002 9:54 am

I guess that when the first steelers played their instrument with a hog's tooth, the whole history went another direction.

Just do it your way, as good as it fits you!
JJ

Smiley Roberts · Post by **Smiley Roberts** » 14 Nov 2002 11:22 am

Bobby Koefer never did use finger picks. To this day,he uses a flat guitar pick. (& a flat bar.)

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<pre> ~ ~
©¿© It don't mean a thang,
mm if it ain't got that twang.
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Tom Campbell · Post by **Tom Campbell** » 14 Nov 2002 11:31 am

David,

Herco makes a flat pick that fits over your thumb...it doubles as a thumb pick (for steel) and a flat pick for standard guitar. It comes in hard and medium stiffness...sells for about a $1.00. I bought a "hand-full" at the Guitar Center.

If you want to develope your own sound/style, do it your way...that's what the masters did...and that's what lead to their unique sound(s), along with a big dose of imagination and creativity!

Michael Haselman · Post by **Michael Haselman** » 14 Nov 2002 11:50 am

I believe you will find, without exception, that the masters were influenced by older, more experienced players. You don't just pick this stuff up by osmosis, or out of thin air. I'm just assuming that as a pedal steel player, you're used to Emmons, Hughey, Franklin, et.al. I don't believe any of these people use flatpicks. I also don't think there's anything wrong with playing steel with a flatpick. I just don't think it's practical to get the trademark huge steel sound.

Mark van Allen · Post by **Mark van Allen** » 14 Nov 2002 11:54 am

I'd have to agree that if you want to sound in the ballpark with most of the Steel fraternity, you'd probably be better off learning with fingerpicks. I play finger and pick style 6 string guitar and really prefer using picks on steel and Dobro. That being said, there's room for any original style that works for you- check out all the Robert Randolph threads lately! I'll never forget a jam session I went to years ago where I saw some big ol' fella in just bib overalls playing a Maverick with a flatpick and bare feet and just TEARIN' IT UP... taught me a lot.

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Busy in the Studio, busy on the road- but still lookin' for that Killer gig! C'mon by and visit-http://www.markvanallen.com

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 14 Nov 2002 12:11 pm

If you're a beginner, play with at least a thumbpick, but preferably with finger picks as well. I believe that the flatpick will probably hinder your playing eventually, especially when you get to the point where you need to speed-pick. Buddy Emmons and a couple other guys occasionally only use a thumbpick. And hey, when you're accomplished enough to do that, that's when you can do it.

There will always be the exceptions to the generally accepted, standardized way of doing anything... what we don't see are the attempts at "doing your own thing" that failed.

Jr. Brown and Koefer are among those exceptions. Far more success has been achieved by most players who chose to adapt to the generally accepted way of playing. It's called "accepting the wisdom of great players who have gone before you."

Not that you fall in this category, but I have occasionally gotten requests for lessons from guys who for some reason or other have a cocakamamie tuning of their own design or some such thing, backwards pedals (Sonny Curtis style), playing with a flat pick, etc. and they want me to teach them THAT way. I tell them that I teach MY way, with my set of standard tunings (as if E9, C6, non-pedal C6, A6, E13, and G major aren't enough!)I'm familiar with and have a system. I explain that I'm not gonna reinvent my particular wheel for one guy, and if they're accomplished enough to figure out their own tuning, they can teach it to me.

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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association

Kenny Dail · Post by **Kenny Dail** » 14 Nov 2002 12:30 pm

I have a friend, Sid Hudson formerly with the Barbara Show on lead guitar also plays PSG using a straight pick and two finger picks. He does not seem inhibited in his performances.

Smiley, I always thoght the Bobby Koefer used a Thumb pick. If you have ever seen him perform and observed the technique, I believe you will agree with me. Also, please note the area of his Fender Triple neck that the finish is worn away where his right hand seems to rest during his performance. Am I wrong????

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kd...and the beat goes on...

[This message was edited by Kenny Dail on 14 November 2002 at 12:32 PM.]

Stephen Gambrell · Post by **Stephen Gambrell** » 14 Nov 2002 4:08 pm

Tut Taylor does a pretty good job playing Dobro with a flatpick, don't y'all think? I play with fingerpicks, but I've kept my long nails for guitar. I think Herb's right, though. Start with the picks, then go from there. But if it takes playing with your toes to get the sound you're hearing, then GET THEM SHOES OFF!! Good luck!

Jeff Lampert · Post by **Jeff Lampert** » 14 Nov 2002 4:36 pm

I'm wondering if this flatpick business is going to eventually hurt my development on the instrument

Yes. You're limited to picking only 2 strings at a time. And the lost leverage of trying to hold the pick will hinder your speed. Learn to play with picks, the way 99.9% of the players play.

John Macy · Post by **John Macy** » 14 Nov 2002 4:41 pm

Dick Meis here in Denver uses a flat pick and two finger picks, and sounds quite nice. He jumps back and forth between steel and 6 string (often between verses/chorus').[This message was edited by John Macy on 14 November 2002 at 05:14 PM.]

John Bresler · Post by **John Bresler** » 14 Nov 2002 5:29 pm

John is absolutely right about Dick Meis. And I might add that his speed pickin' style sounds really good, too. Get his CD, "Some Good Stuff" if you want to hear a really good flat picker.

Rick Schmidt · Post by **Rick Schmidt** » 14 Nov 2002 5:37 pm

I first learned steel by watching Dick Meiss
play in Denver years ago. I started with a flatpick and two finger picks. I've since gone over to a thumbpick and 3 picks. (which some people still think is heresy)I've also been playing steel with a guitar in my lap (ala Dick) for years now and still dont understand why more guys don't do that either. I tried every possible pick combination when I first started doing it, and find for the most part that it's easier to play passible guitar with my thumb & fingerpicks on than the steel with a flatpick. But I must admit that sometimes when I really want to dig in on guitar I'll take off the thumbpick only to end up playing part of the song on steel with a flatpick. Yikes.

The moral of the story: learn from the masters, but always keep in mind that there really are NO rules. Every approach yields different sounding results. Why not add them all to your bag of tricks?

P.S. Junior B. would probably never admit to this, but I know for a FACT that he was seriously influenced by Mr. Meiss's approach.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 14 Nov 2002 7:20 pm

Play with whatever sounds good and is comfortable to you! (I don't care if it's a french-fry.) Change only when you discover that what you're using is holding you back from attaining your goals.

My2cents[This message was edited by Donny Hinson on 14 November 2002 at 07:21 PM.]

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 15 Nov 2002 12:59 am

Hey, everybody is different and you should do whatever works for you. Boogie Sherard is another steeler who plays with a flat pick. I've never heard Boogie, but he is reputed to be an outstanding player.

For what it's worth, most of us (including me) prefer a thumb pick and 2 fingers picks. Both Joe Wright and Reece Anderson use 3 finger picks.

It's all a matter of personal preference.

MUSICO · Post by **MUSICO** » 15 Nov 2002 4:01 am

I use my nails, classical guitar style.

Bob please could you remove this post, Im already embarrased.

Jeremy Williams
Barcelona Spain

P.S. I couldn´t do my flamenco rasgueados in my arrangement of Rodrigos (Pedal Steel) Guitar Concerto with picks on.

Skip Keane · Post by **Skip Keane** » 16 Nov 2002 7:02 am

I think you should use what works for you, and if we all played the same way it would be pretty boring. It's not the equipment it's the player. I like to play with no picks sometimes, I just love the sound that I get. If you play a piece well then who cares if you are playing it the "right" way. There are plenty of players who don't explore new techniques, or push the limits of their instrument or themselves. But that's where the musical importance happens.
Explore, experiment and enjoy is my moto.
Skip

CrowBear Schmitt · Post by **CrowBear Schmitt** » 16 Nov 2002 4:06 pm

What Donny H says.

(so far so good, No Blasphemy)
many paths go through the forest,
they all come out on the otherside.
using a flatpick can be fun as an effect or style
but imho finger pickin' is where it's at.
i use a thumb pick and 2/3 fingers no picks !
what gets me off is: Power of the Thumb
do whatever feels good + natural for you
David but keep your eye on the donut.
don't forget to get a close look at how others Steel too. that's a real treat !
Do keep on pickin' David,
ain't nobody here but us chickens...

!!!

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Steel what?

John Macy · Post by **John Macy** » 16 Nov 2002 4:16 pm

Jeremy Williams--

How can I hear some of this--it's sounds amazing. Is it recorded?

Let me (us) know.

Thanks

Smiley Roberts · Post by **Smiley Roberts** » 16 Nov 2002 11:53 pm

Kenny,
RE: thumbpick
You may be right. It's been a while since I saw Koefer.

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<pre> ~ ~
©¿© It don't mean a thang,
mm if it ain't got that twang.
www.ntsga.com</pre>

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 18 Nov 2002 4:42 am

David, I too have been playing both Telecaster and Steel and swithing back and fourth on the bandstand since the Ice Age it seems, still do. I started out using a flatpick on the Tele and a Thumb and two finger picks with the Steel. The only thing that has changed thru the years is I now no longer use any picks with the Telecaster, I have sort of incorporated the 3 finger Steel style with my Tele' playing.

I would recommend using the Thumb and 2 finger picks with the Steel and just get used to taking them off and putting them back on.. How would one play a triad with all notes being picked at the same time with a flatpick? Example, string grips 10,6 and 4 ? To me a big part of the power and emotion of the Pedal Steel is the different string grip combinations which in my mind would be not possible to play with a flatpick.

And..I'll go way out on the plank here..put down the flatpick and play the Guitar with your fingers! I pick off my finger tips, not my nails. A sweeter sounding Tele' is not to be found, at least in my house ! 3 note bends and slurs..just like the Steel !

Now all this being said, I do have an issue with the Thumb and 2 finger picks for the Steel. I find it almost impossible to master the art of picking up a coffee cup with my right hand without spilling the coffee and without removing the picks..and no..I can't hold the coffee cup with my 4th finger and pinky finger..but I'm workin' on it.

tp[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 18 November 2002 at 05:58 AM.]

Jerry Hayes · Post by **Jerry Hayes** » 18 Nov 2002 3:50 pm

I play lead guitar and Steel both and use a thumbpick and two finger picks on both instruments. I don't think it's ever hindered my guitar playing either as I earned a good living for many years doing that. I started steel after the guitar and was already used to the three pick thing so I didn't have any problems with that. There are some of those modern chicky-picky things which require a little meat sound but I've used my ring finger on the right hand for that with no problem. A guitar player of note who uses thumb and fingerpicks on guitar is Duncan Cameron of Sawyer Brown. He plays anything he wants to. Back to the first issue though, I don't think I'd ever attempt to play steel with a flatpick. I've seen a few who did but a fact that can't be disputed is that the greatest steelers in the world don't use them. I don't know a steel player of note who uses flatpicks. It's just not a logical choice.

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Livin' in the Past and the Future with a 12 string Mooney Universal tuning.