couple greenhorn questions

Thomas Heath · Post by **Thomas Heath** » 30 Oct 2012 5:20 pm

I have a GFI starter I bought six months ago; just getting into steel. I'm having trouble bending my ankle enough to keep it completely off the pedals, especially B and C. No sure why, it doesn't seem to be a problem for anyone else. Im young, and don't have any ankle or foot problems. Is/was this a problem for anyone else? Now im forming bad habits of raising my foot completely off the floor when not using pedals. Furthermore, im having difficulty rocking my foot to the left, when I release the B pedal while holding the A. The reverse isnt so much of a problem, can hammer on A no problem. So, I want to adjust my pedals to make them lower. It seems on my guitar I just adjust that bolt above the pedal on the pedal rod. Is there anything I should know while doing this? I guess I can get the appropriate wrench at Scotty's or a hardware store.

Should I start with adjusting only the B pedal and see how it feels or just do them all a bit at first and go from there?

Finally, I can only play without shoes on since that is how I started playing the first few months in my house. Now shoes just get in the way and feel unnatural, I have no feel, and obviously it is harder to cock my ankle enough to clear the B and C pedals with shoes. I'd like to be able to play with shoes on but dont want to go through the "I hate this" period.

Any help is appreciated, Thanks

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 30 Oct 2012 6:16 pm

First the easy ones.
Any hardware store would have the appropriate wrench, a small adjustable wrench should do the job.
I'd recommend sticking with barefoot/stocking feet til playing this beast becomes more automatic. After awhile you'll stop thinking and just play: then go ahead and and add footwear.

Most of us have the B pedal a bit below the A and C pedals. The rocking of the ankle will eventually stop feeling weird

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 30 Oct 2012 7:19 pm

I think most of us have been through that. Practice and time will help. You can practice bending your ankle any time you sit down. Just keep your foot planted on the floor and practice rocking your ankle back and forth in both directions. This will eventually get the muscles to allow the bends.

And, adjusting the pedals so that when you rock on and off pedal combinations, the one pedal you want to stay depressed stays down while the other let's off all the way. It will happen. There's no magic recipe.

Willis Vanderberg · Post by **Willis Vanderberg** » 31 Oct 2012 8:59 am

Adjust your pedals as low to the floor as you can. If on a hardwood floor it will be fine, if on carpet I carry two small pieces of 1/4 " plywood about 2X3, I set these under the front legs to compensate for deep pile. Works for me

Old Bud

Jeff Scott Brown · Post by **Jeff Scott Brown** » 31 Oct 2012 9:22 am

Lane Gray wrote:The rocking of the ankle will eventually stop feeling weird

Agreed.

I too am a new player and the pedal rocking thing was really tricky for me at first. I didn't focus on any specific exercises or changes related to that but found that after a few weeks it just started working for me, at least it works for me a lot better than it did during those first few weeks.

CrowBear Schmitt · Post by **CrowBear Schmitt** » 31 Oct 2012 9:25 am

Welcome to the wonderful world of psg Thomas...

for the beginner, rocking the ankle from side to side is not easy at first
mucho practice gets you there
as Lane mentions some raise pedals A & C slightly above pedal B
you should experiment w: that Thomas, & see if you manage to find " the spot "
Don't have the pedals too high of the floor
mine are about 1" & a half above it
as for barefootin" - that's kool at home but you're gonna have to put shoes on on sooner or later
i find loafer type shoes are quite comfortable & practical

Frank Montmarquet · Post by **Frank Montmarquet** » 31 Oct 2012 6:30 pm

I have been playing less than a year, had some of the same issues.

In addition to adjusting the pedal height you can probably adjust the travel (without changing tuning) by changing the leverage. See if you can put the pedal rods in different holes/positions on the bell crank or pedal. My Sierra has 3 positions for the ball end on the pedal and 2 holes on the bell crank.

Reducing the travel of the A and C pedals by using the holes closest to the cross shaft helped a lot.

Doug Earnest · Post by **Doug Earnest** » 31 Oct 2012 6:50 pm

It really isn't a movement you use in a lot of other things so it takes a while to get used to it. The suggestions above are good.
PUT YOUR SHOES ON!!!!! This is only my opinion but playing barefoot is a horrible way to play. Just forget you ever tried it.

Ben Feher · Post by **Ben Feher** » 31 Oct 2012 7:46 pm

Yeah, gotta agree here. The foot thing feels terrible at first, but it does get easier.

My piece to contribute is that It may fell like it is your left ankle thats the issue -- but really your whole body may not be in a good position.

The angle of your left leg is very important. I find my right leg and foot are perpendicular to the body of the guitar and vertical, and my left hip is slightly further away than the right side so my body is a little bit open to the rest of the guitar, while my left leg is just slightly diagonal down away from my body a bit. My foot is also turned inward a bit to be closer to perpendicular to the pedal rack.

It may be more comfortable to play without your knee levers for a little while till your foot gets used to the A+B pedals. Just fold them up in the body. They are super useful and really important, but they may be forcing you into an position that feels awkward (but chances are, once you get more used to the body position you'll realize that they really are in a pretty good place.)

Heel on the floor is real important I am finding. Once you start using the C pedal, it is essential I find.

I am really close to getting a pair of these: http://www.amazon.com/Capezio-Mens-Stan ... 002ABOXYG/ They are very thing soled dance shoes with a 1" heel raise. I think that they will work very well for steel since the sole is very thin and flexible. Plus the raise on the heel looks like it'd make the short achilles tendon I seem to have work a lot better.

I wouldn't recommend the barefoot plan for long, unless you go barefoot a lot and have tough callouses and strong toes and are used to it. Being able to mash the pedals a bit is important, so I like a sole.

Daniel Policarpo · Post by **Daniel Policarpo** » 1 Nov 2012 1:39 am

THat first week of learning how to pivot and rock that ankle is tough. Lowering the B pedal was a huge revelation. Learning how to relax, but in a steady position is really key, too. I am now pretty much set the way Ben F. describes, but I cannot play with tennis shoes on. I have to wear cowboy boots. Feeling the pedals is a big thing, as well as being able to bounce them, and a good pair of Tony Llamas gives me the best of both worlds. Not saying you should wear cowboy boots, but find some footwear that is comfortable. In the long run, playing barefoot will make you want to grab at the pedals with your toes, causing unnecessary fatigue, and possible strain. But we all got our styles, it could be you don't like bouncing the pedals, maybe you got a different thing going. Maybe you got "monkey feet", in which case, carry on.

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 1 Nov 2012 4:11 am

Regarding footwear: I play in soft-soled moccasins,the kind that does not have a reinforced sole. They provide all the flexibility of playing barefoot, without any of the discomfort.

But this is not a "one size fits all" kind of thing. Some people play in cowboy boots with pointed toes, and others play with regular shoes, or sneakers, and others use mocs like me and still others play barefoot or with just socks.

You should try different things and see which suits you best.

Ronnie Boettcher · Post by **Ronnie Boettcher** » 1 Nov 2012 3:40 pm

As for rocking off the B pedal, and using your LKL and A pedal for raising the E's, I found as I got older, my ankles didn't move as much. What I did was move both the LKL and the LKR levers to the left. No more problems. Went through a lot of measurements to see exactly how far left I had to move them, so I only would have to move them one time. All I needed was 2 longer rods, and 1, 10/32 machine screw cut to fit, and a 10/32 rod coupling. Just cost me a few dollars, and is great.

mike nolan · Post by **mike nolan** » 1 Nov 2012 6:39 pm

Whatever works.
I started playing with just socks. I can play with almost any shoes now, but I still kick 'em off unless the stage is really awash in beer, vomit, and oblivion.
No great violinist plays with gloves....
My wife is a world class harpist, and she usually eschews the shoes.

Clark Doughty · Post by **Clark Doughty** » 1 Nov 2012 7:42 pm

Before you start knocking playing without shoes remember Austin Stewart plays in his stocking feet!

nuf said

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 5 Nov 2012 8:45 am

Except when moving from one foot position to another (which is usually not necessary when playing just A, B, & C) your heel should stay on the floor. I have no problem with resting the ball of my foot lightly on the pedals, and then pivoting to actuate any individual pedal, or any pair of these 3 pedals. (You may need to adjust the pedals down to make this comfortable...they may be set too high.)

And yes, I strongly recommend wearing shoes or boots!

Mark van Allen · Post by **Mark van Allen** » 5 Nov 2012 10:01 am

If you do a couple of searches through the archives here you'll find all kinds of threads about foot position and footwear. I generally don't like to disagree with previous advice, but I would strongly come down on the side of learning with the kind of shoes you think you'll want to wear when playing, and with knee levers in the playing position!
I've had many students train themselves to flop their (pedal) knee back and forth from playing without knee levers, only to find themselves activating knees at inappropriate moments when trying to UNLEARN that habit.
Another caveat- make sure to leave the heel down and pivot the ankle, difficult as it is at first, and DON'T move the foot from A to B pedal, which seems logical... you really need to develop the strength, speed, and sense memory to activate either or both pedals in any combination as fast as your phrasing demands. Even more confusing is that you will have to lift and move, or pivot/shift, your pedal foot over to position over the B&C pedals when using them, or to the "Franklin" 4th pedal if you have one.
The suggestions about body placement (for me, on most guitars, having my centerline somewhere around the 13th-16th fret seems to put my leg/foot at the best angle), and stretching your ankle by practicing the right and left pivoting movement while driving or watching TV are great.
I fell off a roof at one time, and when my foot healed the movement was much more restricted in one direction, and that ankle stretching really helped.
I still do it all the time. You will want to periodically revisit the pedal height adjustment as you learn to fine tune it, just a 1/4" in height difference can make a huge difference, particularly if you notice yourself accidentally activating the B pedal a bit when pressing just A.

Sorry if I ruffled any feathers, but advising practicing physical movements in any way you'll have to eventually UNLEARN to play properly is kind of short-sighted.