Compact Pedal Cluster *(CPC)

Andy Alford · Post by **Andy Alford** » 31 Oct 2002 6:12 am

When one learns to listen he starts learning.
Chatter like clatter can lead in a circle.

Fred Shannon · Post by **Fred Shannon** » 31 Oct 2002 7:09 am

Andy A:
Super post, makes sense to me.

Bill H:
I think Andy was referring to the Julian Tharpe 14 string guitar which was tuned in F chrom. It had 15 floor pedals and 6 knees. The odd pedals, excepting 1 and 15 were located between the even pedals. I've emailed you a .jpg picture of the copedant. I've been told it is in Julian's handwriting but I'm not certain. Am i correct Andy?

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The spirit be with you!
If it aint got a steel, it aint real

Ian Finlay · Post by **Ian Finlay** » 31 Oct 2002 7:44 am

Just so everyone understands - my post was SUPPORTING Bill's efforts. Without people like him, there would have been no pedal steel, no electric guitar, no solidbody instruments, no saxophone and so on.

It's just my warped sense of humour enjoying Bill and Bob's linguistic floweriness and joining in.

My sincerest apologies to anyone who was offended.

Ian

Andy Alford · Post by **Andy Alford** » 31 Oct 2002 8:00 am

Fred

Julian was in his own world, that a few have attempted to find.His playing was all Julian.Fred you were right and thank you very much.

Steve Feldman · Post by **Steve Feldman** » 31 Oct 2002 3:37 pm

There is a large lake there, with the longest name I've ever seen.

That would be Lake Chargoggagoggmanchaugagoggchaubunagungamaug (I kid you NOT!). It's right down the road. Check it out at

http://www.epodunk.com/cgi-bin/genInfo.php?locIndex=3183 [This message was edited by Steve Feldman on 31 October 2002 at 03:37 PM.]

Stephen Gambrell · Post by **Stephen Gambrell** » 31 Oct 2002 4:16 pm

Ian, you're cool!

Lee Baucum · Post by **Lee Baucum** » 31 Oct 2002 6:50 pm

Steve - I'm guessing that it's referred to as "the lake".

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Lee, from South Texas
Down On The Rio Grande

Jim Smith · Post by **Jim Smith** » 31 Oct 2002 7:09 pm

Actually, according to Steve's link that is the Indian name. The American name is Webster Lake.

Doug Beaumier · Post by **Doug Beaumier** » 31 Oct 2002 9:48 pm

I played at Indian Ranch many times...

on the shores of beautiful <pre>Lake Char gogg' a gogg, man chaug' a gogg, chau bun' a gung a maug
</pre>

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My Site - Instruction | Doug's Free Tab | Steels and Accessories

[This message was edited by Doug Beaumier on 31 October 2002 at 09:50 PM.]

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 1 Nov 2002 3:53 am

Jim S.,

Do you recall any of the pedal styles used in the heel and toe arrangements? I want to quote the person who once said, "adding too many changes on the steel becomes repetitious". In other words, the tuning and pedal setups seen in standard arrangements, are quite sufficient to provide the player with the necessary changes. We now know that the majority of advanced players have taken another view on additional string pulls, and lowering devices. So much for resolute proclamations that are at times; carelessly uttered. I feel strongly, that by putting the time, and effort into the CPC, something good will evolve as a reward.

Thanks to all who helped make Lake Webster so colorful.

Bill H.[This message was edited by Bill Hankey on 01 November 2002 at 07:17 AM.]

Jim Smith · Post by **Jim Smith** » 1 Nov 2002 5:33 am

Sorry Bill, too much water has flowed under the bridge for me to remember any of Al's changes for sure. As I recall though, he had sort of an extended E9 on the front neck with pretty much the standard pedals and knee levers, and a diatonic tuning on the back, that he used the rest of the pedals on.

The standard length pedals were higher and had the standard changes. The longer ones were played with his heel, and used much like knee levers to "augment" what he was doing with the standard pedals.

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 1 Nov 2002 7:38 am

Jim S.,

I know what you mean by water under the bridge. It literally sweeps away some of our most precious memories, but sometimes dams up things we try to forget.

Your information contains much more pertinent data than first meets the eye. The heel is a definite no no in the CPC design. I want my heel to be firmly placed on the floor at all times, with the exception of a few Ralph Mooney styled tunes.

(Chalk up a misspell.) We're all vulnerable, at times. I try to review at least once, but the word definite escaped detection.

Bill H.
[This message was edited by Bill Hankey on 02 November 2002 at 01:03 AM.]

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 2 Nov 2002 1:54 am

Doug B.,

Thanks for breaking down the Indian word for Lake Webster, and the inquiry concerning the function of
the CPC., dated 10/28/02.

Bill H.

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 2 Nov 2002 5:41 am

Mike P.,

I have determined this morning by using a compression spring under the short pedal, that the CPC is a definite go forward, and most of all, will exact a mechanical advantage over the B-Bb change. Its current popular location at the left knee (LKV) is history. Actually, I used a forward push, to engage the B-Bb change, and the "Golo" was used to effect that change.

Bill H.

Mylos Sonka · Post by **Mylos Sonka** » 2 Nov 2002 6:19 am

Actually, Vance Terry's guitar was built by Chuck Wright around 1970. Forumite David Wright may know the exact year, as he was probably working in his dad's shop at the time.

Vance was a sort of test pilot for Chuck. Vance took over on steel (on a 1953 Bigsby with two pedals) for Chuck with Jimmie Rivers and the Cherokees in 1960, and they began working on design improvements over the ensuing years. Chuck and Vance both told me that Chuck built nine guitars for Vance, the last being the double-tiered Sierra with 19 pedals. It is equipped with a Brad's Rack, but I don't know when or if it was added later when Tom Bradshaw did a restoration.

I would have to take a look under the guitar, but I am fairly sure Vance said that it originally had a knee lever or two, but he did not use them and took them off.

Mylos Sonka

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 2 Nov 2002 1:46 pm

Mylos S.,

Thank you for the names of individuals who may be willing to confer with me, should I make inquiries to learn more about the multipedal steel. I'm amazed at the enormous amount of steel guitar activity that has taken place in the Texas/California music halls. The magic of T.V. has made it possible to enjoy some of the performances. Thanks again for the enjoyable reply.

Bill H. [This message was edited by Bill Hankey on 03 November 2002 at 01:23 PM.]

Stephen Gambrell · Post by **Stephen Gambrell** » 3 Nov 2002 1:07 pm

"The normal placement of footwear"? Bill, how could we even ATTEMPT to play with our shoes on or hands?
Man, you gotta quit smokin' that stuff.

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 4 Nov 2002 1:15 am

Stephen G.,

I dislike breaking bubbles, but a sufficient wake-up call would be to announce that dress, and footwear, have become important issues, in the scheme of things, involving the art of playing "pedal" steel guitar. I've seen attempts to play, made by hikers wearing hiker boots, who with a nonchalant gaze, quickly discover that there is a definite problem when their boot cleats tangle in the pedals. In contrast, I've found that "pedal feel" is more important than sought after machismo. I refer to thick soled footwear, with shiny man-made materials, as the lesser of good choices.

Bill H. [This message was edited by Bill Hankey on 06 November 2002 at 03:31 AM.]

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 5 Nov 2002 8:25 am

I have good news for those who have a curious nature about better things to come. The (CPC) has exceeded every expectation. I quickly produced a prototype of the basic design, and I'm totally elated as I report to the forum that it works like a charm!!! The 5th string lower can be an irksome change, if improperly located. With this in mind, I proceeded to put the problem to rest. I now have the ability to lower the 5th two full tones with by far the softest touch that defies imagination. I will decide later on the number of lowering half steps in the final analysis.

Bill Hankey

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 6 Nov 2002 3:11 am

Change advocates,

Work to finish the (CPC) is ongoing, and I look forward to presenting photos in approximately one week. I'm delighted with the convenience of tonal changes made possible, by the "short" pedals, on the pedal rack. I promise not to belabor, or elaborate on details of this subject matter. However, I will respond in kind, to those who have a genuine interest in new ideas.

Bill H.