Cord Changes

Sam White · Post by **Sam White** » 31 Oct 2002 5:32 pm

I have to learn the cord changes. The way I'm being taught is to listen to the Bass and change when he changes. OK you go 1 then 1 and then 5 then back two 1 then back to 5 then back to 1 do you go to 4 next .It seems now that I have to learn Bass now in order to play Steel is that right.Man this is getting more complicated than ever now.Going on 6 years and still not there. I just might think about giving up and go back to nothing.
Sam White

Michael Holland · Post by **Michael Holland** » 31 Oct 2002 6:00 pm

Don't give up, Sam. It's important to understand the fundamentals of music in order to create the sound you're after. Chords are made up of intervals, the building blocks of harmony. I would suggest you enroll in Music Theory 101 at your local community college. That would be the best introduction to music you can get. As for the bass player; he's got the easy job. You've got a much bigger job ahead of you! Hang in there, buddy.

Your fellow Fessenden player.

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Fessenden SD10 - Mesa/Boogie amps

Mike Delaney · Post by **Mike Delaney** » 1 Nov 2002 9:11 am

I agree whole heartedly. Harmony and Theory 101 will answer many questions.

Nathan Delacretaz · Post by **Nathan Delacretaz** » 1 Nov 2002 10:35 am

Yeah, Sam - don't give up. I can use myself as an example of how fundamentals will help you. I studied all that stuff in high school 10+ years ago and thought it was boring as h*ll, pretty much just math that you memorize... But after a while I realized that the rules are great because you can apply them to any tonal instrument...and you can apply the rules to figure out what your bandmates are doing - and you play off that.

And take breaks now and then by just picking along with the radio - any notes or chords you can match - even the little diddies during the commercials. Just unplug your brain and try to mimic some of the sounds. It takes the pressure off when it's non-academic, ya know..? You don't want your only time at the instrument to be stressful, ya know?

richard burton · Post by **richard burton** » 1 Nov 2002 11:14 am

Sam,
Did you learn to read before you learned to talk? Of course not. If you have any music in you, it will show itself without you having to read music.
I'm sorry to have to say this, but people who can't play an instrument unless they have a sheet of music in front of them, are not musicians.

Michael Holland · Post by **Michael Holland** » 1 Nov 2002 11:40 am

We're not talking about reading sheet music, Richard. We're talking about learning the letters of the musical alphabet. As letters make up words, intervals make up music. Sure, you might be an incredible, completely self-taught musician. But wouldn't you like to be able to communicate with other musicians? To do so, one must 'speak the language'. Even trained musicians play by ear, a highly refined ear. Sam's in a situation where he needs some help and stimulus. Let's all give him some support. Sam, have you tried to find a teacher who can help with theory as well as technique?

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Fessenden SD10 - Mesa/Boogie amps

richard burton · Post by **richard burton** » 1 Nov 2002 11:52 am

My apologies, I stand corrected. Michael, I am not even a credible self taught musician.
I misunderstood Sam's post, sorry, didn't mean to put a downer on you, Sam.

Nathan Delacretaz · Post by **Nathan Delacretaz** » 1 Nov 2002 12:05 pm

Michael said it...that analogy between music and words is really effective...letters make up words and words allow you to express yourself. The theory helps you build a "vocabulary" that you can use.

And remember to enjoy yourself, Sam. You control that element of fun and enjoyment.

Stephen Gambrell · Post by **Stephen Gambrell** » 1 Nov 2002 1:43 pm

Sam, it's about fun! After you've asked about the changes enough, you'll start hearing them yourself. A lot of folks come from musical families and/or backgrounds, where singing harmony over changes is a natural thing. And then there's the rest of us

Hang in there, study that theory, but don't get so caught up in it that you forget to play some music, and above all, HAVE YOURSELF SOME FUN!
God bless!

Gary Walker · Post by **Gary Walker** » 1 Nov 2002 2:45 pm

I might add that listening to the bass player is not the total clue of the chord. A II on the bass may be a II/7 or a II/m7, etc, and the two are not compatible. The bass line is a good start but training the ear to recognize the notes of the chord is of prime importance. Jeff Newman has had some good classes on ear training.

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 2 Nov 2002 12:44 am

Sam,

Have you tried playing a lesser instrument, (meaning less difficult to master) in your quest to get a handle on the art of steel playing? The keyboard would not be considered a lesser instrument, but even a youthful beginner can manage simple melodies. One thing that you can count on in music, is that there will always be a struggling, at some point, due to the complexities of written music. Your desire to learn is the key to moving ahead. Fascination, or curiosity will do nothing more than bond you to homeplate.

Bill H.

Rick Garrett · Post by **Rick Garrett** » 2 Nov 2002 3:05 am

Im no pro for sure and most of these guys here know one heck of alot more than I do about steel guitar and music but, all you gotta do to know when to change chords is learn to listen to what the music is doing. That probably sounds funny but its not too hard to master that part. Take a real close listen to any song you want and you can hear the chord changes. You dont have to listen just to the bass either. The melody will let you know when its time to shift gears. Best of luck to you and NEVER give up!

Rick Garrett

Doug Seymour · Post by **Doug Seymour** » 2 Nov 2002 4:16 am

There are some ear training features in BIAB
and web sites that help you learn music theory. I grew up in a musical family and studied theory in high scool and it always gave me a leg up....plus it was an easier subject for me than chemistry or whatever & something that I was very interested in. I was learning guitar about the same time and trying to apply what I learned in class to the guitar! I'm not sure I have this right, but try www.musictheory.net and see if you get a helpful web site.

Bobby Boggs · Post by **Bobby Boggs** » 2 Nov 2002 11:59 am

After 6 years and not being able to hear basic chord changes. Is Harmony and Theory 101 going to do him much good?I think Mr White being a senor citizen is looking for a quick fix.I like the Newman idea.But I started as an 8 year old kid.I just played along with simple tunes till I got them right or could hear the changes in my head, and kept working my way up.At Mr Whites age I think he just wants to have fun.If not hit the books.Just don't give up.Best of luck!------bb

Stephen Gambrell · Post by **Stephen Gambrell** » 2 Nov 2002 1:14 pm

Bobby and Rick, you guys have the handle on it. Sam, start with a simple song, G-to-C-to-D, and try to anticipate the changes. After a while, anybody can do it. Look at Bobby Boggs--he started when he was 8, now he's 67, and can get all the way through "Waltz Across Texas."
(Bobby, I'm just yankin' your chain)
Above all, though Sam, don't get so bogged down(forgive the pun, Bobby)that you forget to listen. I've been trying to teach a guitar-playing friend how to pat his foot, for 25 years, and he gets so caught up in the "how," he forgets "why." Enjoy yourself, Sam, and may God bless and enrich your life!

Bobby Boggs · Post by **Bobby Boggs** » 2 Nov 2002 4:30 pm

Steve I turned 72 last nite.

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 3 Nov 2002 3:59 am

Sam , good to meet you Saturday, although only for a moment, Maybe next time we will find the time to actually talk a bit.

Think in simplicity.

Many of the tunes that we play are built on a 3 chord format , being I , IV and V..like you already stated. As you become more familiar with playing, your ear will become trained to hear and understand as the changes occur. When someone says listen to the Bass player , primarily a quality Bass player will or most often play a walking line to the chord change. So when you hear the walking lick and you're both playing the same song that you both know, then it's the Bass thats leading you into the next chord change. It's not science, it's like Michael said, it's communication thru music. Keep in mind also that it's common for experienced musicians to anticipate the changes and they are mentally preparing for them ahead of time. This will come with playing tunes that you are familiar with and seat time.

Stick with it, one day it will just show up.

Everyone of us, the PRO'S and the hacks like me had to start at square zero at one point.

tp

Joseph Barcus · Post by **Joseph Barcus** » 3 Nov 2002 5:19 am

get a song that you know by heart, if it has four beats before changing to a 4 chord then at every beat hit that same 1 chord at a different location on the steel except the last beat should be a 7th and theres tons of 7th chords. only two that needs passing 7th are your 1 and back from 5, standard 3 chord that is. just sit back lookat the guitar figure out where every G is then figure out where every G 7th is would be a good start. oh well just my two cents worth lol

George Wixon · Post by **George Wixon** » 3 Nov 2002 6:26 am

Hi Sam,
As most of the other people have already said don't give up and also take a simple song. In the Winnie Winston book, there are three different sections on chord theory and explained very well. The simplest song that I know of and is also used in example in the book is a little thing you've probably sang all your life and knows exactly hoe it goes. "Happy Birthday" has a I,IV,and V chord and if you can play those chords in that song then for the most part you have the chord changes to most 3 chord songs. I'm not talking melody just the chords. As Tony put it, we all had to start at some point and had to learn.
Don't give up and by all means have fun.
George

Sam White · Post by **Sam White** » 3 Nov 2002 7:04 pm

Thanks to everyone and I will try my best as I'm determined I will play this steel if it kills me.A good freind Skip Mertz is teaching me the cord changes now so I should be able to come out of this alive.Nice meeting you to Tony and i will see you again.
Once again thanks guys.I can play with a Cd as long as there is a steel playing.
Sam White<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Samuel E. White on 03 November 2002 at 07:05 PM.]</p></FONT>