Vintage Emmons buying tips

Alex Cattaneo · Post by **Alex Cattaneo** » 30 Sep 2012 7:32 am

Hey guys, looks like I have an opportunity to get my hands on a vintage S10 Emmons. The seller is an old gentleman so there's no internet communication or emailed pictures or anything like that, I just have to drive to his place and see for myself. Of course, I will most likely take pictures of the guitar and post them here to get your opinion, but I was wondering if you could give me some pointers to help me assess the instrument.

Where is the serial number located? Is there a reference guide somewhere to verify when the guitar was made? What is a wraparound neck? Is that something desirable? How can you tell one from another? Considering that the guitar hasn't been played for a looong time, what are the most likely problems? Are there any common problems that should keep me from buying it?

Any advice is welcomed. Thanks!

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 30 Sep 2012 9:37 am

As far as worth goes you should keep in mind the cost of rebuilding , setting up and or adding levers if needed. S10 with 3 and 4 push pull Emmons are going for around $2000 fully set up and ready to go.

If the steel you are looking at has a wraparound neck it may be worth more. Depends...

Alex Cattaneo · Post by **Alex Cattaneo** » 30 Sep 2012 9:49 am

Thanks Bob. Are wraparound necks the most desirable? Should I pass if it's a bolt-on?

Doug Beaumier · Post by **Doug Beaumier** » 30 Sep 2012 10:10 am

Wraparounds are early models and are said to have great sustain. Those are very rare. The bolt-on was next, mid-1960's I believe. After that they were all cut-tail. Most of the push/pulls out there are cut-tail.

ANY Emmons p/p is worth getting if the price is reasonable. The early S-10s (1960s, early 70s) usually came with 6 pedals and no knee levers, or possibly 1 or 2 levers... so if that's the case the guitar will need to be setup. Parts are usually custom cut and labor is expensive, so you have to figure that into the price.

The serial number is stamped on the inner side of the endplate at the changer end. It should be 4 digits followed by the letter S. I don't know of any listing of serial numbers for the Emmons S-10s, but I have compiled a list of my own from S-10s I've seen or owned over the years, so when you get the serial number let me know and I can tell you the approximate year. IMO the year is not all that important as far as the value. They are all worth about the same, except possibly the wraparounds.

Alex Cattaneo · Post by **Alex Cattaneo** » 30 Sep 2012 10:40 am

Thanks Doug,

The guitar used to belong to Jerry Robitaille, a local country musician who made regular appearances on TV. From the following two videos, I think the guitar has an aluminum neck:

(skip to 1:25)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edXCZ0y1 ... ure=relmfu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNq5MhMH ... ure=relmfu

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 30 Sep 2012 11:08 am

i've never seen an s10 wraparound. did they make them? all (most) wood neck emmons' were bolt-on and very good. metal neck cuttails were most common and good.

if you have any aptitude for mechanics these are all good. don't fall for the common misinformation that every old steel needs to be rebuilt. it's not necessarily true.

Doug Beaumier · Post by **Doug Beaumier** » 30 Sep 2012 11:23 am

From what I can see in the video it has several pedals. Looks like 6 pedal rods, but it's hard to tell. The player is definitely pressing pedals that are toward the middle of the instrument, beyond the standard 3 pedals. I didn't notice any knee levers. It looks like a cut tail, with aluminum neck. If you had it converted over to 3 x 4 you could use some of the hardware on the underside from the unused pedals, but you would need to have knee levers made and some other parts. Tommy Cass in Baldwinville Mass. can do that work. Making changes on a push pull is a lot more involved than an all pull. To change that guitar over to 3 x 4 will cost several hundred dollars. It's definitely worth looking at though and making an offer. It may already have a couple of knee levers.. it's hard to tell from the video.

i've never seen an s10 wraparound. did they make them?

I've seen one. They're as rare as hen's teeth.

Alex Cattaneo · Post by **Alex Cattaneo** » 30 Sep 2012 11:34 am

If it has 6 pedals, was it originally made as a C6?

A rebuild would be a tough sell for me, as I'm in Quebec, Canada and capable steel mechanics are nowhere to be found. Al Brisco is a good 6-hour drive from my place. Maybe Dana Flood in Maine or Jerry Fessenden in Vermont? Still, with the price of gas and all, it adds up.

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 30 Sep 2012 1:43 pm

I don't believe it's a wraparound, but looks like a cut-tail to me. I put it on full-screen, though there were wraparounds that got sent back to the factory for modifications and the small decal got replaced by a badge.

Chris
There were S-10 wraparounds made, but not as many as D-10s. I owned one for a good while, sold it to Chris Lucker, and he parted with it some time back. Chris could possibly tell you more, but wraparounds of any format are far from commonplace.

A good number of them were sent to Canada in the very early days of the Emmons Co. and so this thread piqued my interest. One of my wraps came from Canada, in fact.

Doug Beaumier · Post by **Doug Beaumier** » 30 Sep 2012 2:21 pm

If it has 6 pedals, was it originally made as a C6?

No, E9 with 6 pedals. Either no knee levers or a couple of levers. Many were special order, and the factory would put the buyer's setup on the guitar. I expect that some were shipped with C6 tuning, but I believe the generic Emmons S-10 was E9 with 6 pedals in the early days. I've seen a lot of them with that setup.

Alex, why wouldn't you ship the guitar to an Emmons rebuild specialist? Very few players have one nearby that they can drive to. I'm lucky to have Tommy Cass an hour away.

Alex Cattaneo · Post by **Alex Cattaneo** » 30 Sep 2012 2:27 pm

Well, shipping this thing from Canada + the cost of the rebuild + whatever I will put out to buy the instrument... unless I get a killer deal for the guitar, doesn't seem worth it.

I will visit the seller tomorrow or the next day and post some pics.

Doug Beaumier · Post by **Doug Beaumier** » 30 Sep 2012 2:44 pm

The screws on the end would indicate a cut-tail, but it seems to have additional screws on the side...?

Alex, try to get some close up pics of the undercarriage. Also note the serial number. Maybe you could explain to the seller that the guitar needs to be changed over to a "modern" setup and parts are not longer available, etc. and make him an offer...

Alex Cattaneo · Post by **Alex Cattaneo** » 30 Sep 2012 3:15 pm

I don't know if this is for me, but one thing is sure: this guitar should be in the hands of someone who enjoys playing it. I find it rather sad when instruments are just sitting there not being played. If I don't want for me, I'm sure someone else will, and I'll be glad to make it happen!

Nick Reed · Post by **Nick Reed** » 30 Sep 2012 5:21 pm

Alex,
Here's my little '66 S-10 Bolt-on P/P. It has 3 pedals & 5 knees, tone to die for. . . .great sounding guitar!
Nick

John Lacey · Post by **John Lacey** » 1 Oct 2012 3:24 am

Alex, is Jerry no longer with us? I met him several times in the 70's and he was a sweetheart and and big steel enthusiast.

Alex Cattaneo · Post by **Alex Cattaneo** » 1 Oct 2012 5:18 am

Hi John,

He passed away several years ago, in 1998 I think. I know a few people started playing steel or became aware of it because he played one on TV.

Paul Norman · Post by **Paul Norman** » 1 Oct 2012 8:57 pm

Alex, What is the name of that song Jerry and Jo Anne sang on the Ronnie Propet Show.
That was a good song. About Play Easy Loving one more time.

Mac Knowles · Post by **Mac Knowles** » 2 Oct 2012 2:31 am

Alex, interesting to discover Jerry's Emmons has turned up somewhere. I knew and played with him for many years since he was a little kid in Lennoxville. Often wondered what happened to his guitars. Jerry was left to his own devices at an early age, worked for Sherbrooke Laundry, and learned to play music pretty much by himself. Great picker though, but came to a sad end when he sort of turned into a hermit. He wanted to be a Canadian distributor for Emmons, hoping he'd get a free guitar that way but didn't. Here's another picture of the two of them a long time ago. Some of you clever folks will recognize the make of steel pictured but I can't think of what it was. Anyway, I'd take the guitar if I was you, wish I had the bucks for it.
Cheers, Mac

John Lacey · Post by **John Lacey** » 2 Oct 2012 4:02 am

Hey Mac. Ran into Jerry and Joanne back in '76. I was playing with Jerry Palmer's band playing a club in Fort Frances Ont. and they blew threw town. Joanne was nice enough to invite us for supper in their travel trailor as the hotel was freezing and the gig sucked. Later in the late 70's I ran into Jerry when I put on some steel shows in St. Albert and he was playing nearby. I was so sorry to hear he passed. Hope Joanne is well.

Alex Cattaneo · Post by **Alex Cattaneo** » 2 Oct 2012 5:53 am

Mac and John, thanks so much for sharing. It appears all of Jerry's gear as been sitting in this gentleman's house for years. I'll have more details later today.

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 2 Oct 2012 6:06 am

In the first clip posted, at 6:05, there's another steel player playing an E9 solo on a D-10. Anyone recognize him and the brand of guitar he's playing?

Doug Beaumier · Post by **Doug Beaumier** » 2 Oct 2012 6:59 am

...there's another steel player playing an E9 solo on a D-10. Anyone recognize him and the brand of guitar he's playing?

I don't know who the player is, but the guitar looks like a Sho-Bud.... eh?

Paul Norman · Post by **Paul Norman** » 2 Oct 2012 11:24 am

I AM STILL EXCITED ABOUT THE NAME OF THE SONG THEY SANG ON THE RONNIE PROPHET SHOW.

Carson Leighton · Post by **Carson Leighton** » 2 Oct 2012 11:33 am

Doug,,I think it's Steve Smith on the Sho-Bud...I'm pretty sure he's from around the Toronto area..eh?...Carson

John Lacey · Post by **John Lacey** » 4 Oct 2012 3:10 am

It's definitely Steve. Top player in Canada.