I Want To Record Like 1950

Nate Hofer · From: Overland Park, Kansas

My band is interested in recording ourselves with the old-school equipment. Tape and single takes with the band all together in a barn hayloft. No overdubs.

So, what's the best way to record steel in this environment? Mic my Fender Excelsior with a ribbon mic perhaps?

Clyde Mattocks · From: Kinston, North Carolina, USA

When we recorded in the 50's at radio stations, we used one mike, which was live on both sides. Singer on one side, electric instuments on the other, bass behind the singer. Experiment with distances to place the amps. Got some old recorings of radio shows with a good balance.
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Mark van Allen · From: Watkinsville, Ga. USA

The single Mic Clyde is talking about was most likely a ribbon, with a figure-8 pickup pattern, and you can get close to that sound using the same setup today. Keep in mind part of it is the sound of the room you record in, as the mic picks up bi-directionally, so some of those older recordings are partly to largely the sound of the studio or radio station with the instrument distances altered to balance.

Something you might try for a great stereo recording with the older asthetic would be using two ribbon mics in a mid-side setup. Warm and still nicely stereoized.
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Nate Hofer · From: Overland Park, Kansas

Thanks, Clyde and Mark!

I think we're sorta ambivalent about stereo verse mono. Our favorite Bob Wills recordings are mono so that works for us. But I like the idea of two mics.

Any idea what we might be watching out for as we record in a big empty hayloft? I know those radio station rooms you're talking about were likely pretty small.

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

I think it will be hard to find an engineer who's any good with that equipment. Half of the quality from that era came from the the people who set up the studios and turned the knobs. It wasn't just the tube technology. There were a lot of other forces at work.

Good luck!
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Gregg Laiben · From: Kansas City, Missouri, USA

John Macy · From: Rockport TX/Denver CO

Dust...
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Clyde Mattocks · From: Kinston, North Carolina, USA

The mikes were the big old RCA's. As b0b says, the engineers in those days knew their rooms and were good with mike placement.
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LeGrande II, Nash. 112, Fender Twin Tone Master, Session 400, Harlow Dobro, R.Q.Jones Dobro

Bill Hatcher · From: Atlanta Ga. USA

Marc Jenkins · From: Victoria, British Columbia, Canada

Lots of old records were done in big rooms too. Just play close together and you'll have a pinch of large room ambience if you are careful. Ribbon mics are great, but there were lts of condensers used in the 50's as well. Check out Chandler's pres and compressors, they are Germanium-chipped and very vintage-y, but not expensive.

Mic bleed is your friend, if you use more than one!

Blake Hawkins · From: Florida

It would also help if you had an Ampex 300 series tape recorder. Many '50' recordings were mastered
on them.

Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

I wouldn't think a hayloft would have the accoustics needed.

My first recording session was at Carpenter's Music in Biloxi, Ms in 1960 and we had several mic's but it was still a studio with accoustic tile on the walls and ceiling. It was done on tape and the recording we got out of that session was cut on a 78 rpm disc at the studio.

Alan Brookes · From: Brummy living in Southern California

This is one of the easiest questions to answer. If you want to make 1950s recordings, use 1950s equipment, and duplicate the environment.

You need a mono reel-to-reel 15 ips tape recorder, one ribbon microphone, an empty room, 1950s amplifiers, and 1950s instruments.

Glenn Uhler · From: Trenton, New Jersey, USA

Guys,
Don't forget that the boards from those days were analog, too. The sound from today's digital boards will be different, too. Saw a studio in Hoboken, NJ that still had an analog board about 12 years ago. Their initials were I.I.W.I.I. (Short for: It Is What It Is!)
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Alan Brookes · From: Brummy living in Southern California

You don't need a board with just one microphone, as there's nothing to mix. All you need is the volume control on the tape recorder.

Bill Hatcher · From: Atlanta Ga. USA

Niels Andrews · From: Salinas, California, USA

Just forget anything digital, as has been said already. It would pay to really listen to old recordings that have not been remastered. It is interesting to listen to an old 45 on a phonograph, that is truly of that era, and then listen to a remastered version, with needle scrape removed. Amazing how great the songs were in our memory, but never quite the same to my ear. Post something when you figure it out!
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Die with Memories. Not Dreams.
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Alan Brookes · From: Brummy living in Southern California

There's one thing to remember about open reel tape. I'm always astounded that jam sessions I recorded over 50 yrs. ago are still there, given that they only exist in the magnetic effect on the iron particles, but my experience is that mostly they sound as good as when they were recorded. But the same doesn't go for blank tape. If you record new material on very old blank tape you can get dropout. Given the importance of what you're recoding it pays to buy new tape rather than use old stock, even if it is expensive nowadays.

I believe the reason tape is going out of use is the same reason that more people are taking photographs nowadays, but few people use film. Computer memory is very cheap, whilst tape and film are expensive.

My father used to have a photographic business. If you told him the day would come when you could take as many photographs as you liked without using any film he would think you were talking about paradise on earth. Unfortunately, he passed away in 1981, way before the days of electronic recording. If he were still here he would love it.

Niels Andrews · From: Salinas, California, USA

Alan, especially the delete function that digital allows!
_________________
Die with Memories. Not Dreams.
Good Stuff like Zum S-12, Wolfe Resoport
MSA SS-12, Telonics Combo.

Alan Brookes · From: Brummy living in Southern California

Absolutely, Neils. There's a satisfaction in seeing those reels go round and the VU meters moving that you don't get from hard disk recording. And there's nothing worse that laying down the eighth track of your new masterpiece then getting the message "Data Error." At that stage you can kiss all your work goodbye. Crying or Very sad

Walter Bowden · From: Wilmington, North Carolina, USA

IMHO opinion, another lost skill used quite a bit in early tape analog recording is editing/splicing tape to eliminate count offs and provide space between songs on your 2 track stereo or mono master. I still have my 1/2 " and 1/4 " splicing blocks, splicing and leader tape but haven't used them in many years.

I also actually miss the smell of a fresh reel of 3M or Ampex tape running on recorders to "unpack" the tape in preparation of a session and remembering to play the tape back at speed before shelving for a tight, tails out wrap. Putting reference levels at the head of the tape helped when you sent it to QCA or whoever who made your records was also important.

I agree with Clyde to try a ribbon mic for the real deal. They are bidirectional for the most part and have a sound all their own. Go for it. Walter
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Niels Andrews · From: Salinas, California, USA

And then there were broken tapes, dirty heads, all those wonderful issues. Just look at trying to find a quiet place to record? Sound deadening materials have made a huge impact on recording. Most the time it was start over.
_________________
Die with Memories. Not Dreams.
Good Stuff like Zum S-12, Wolfe Resoport
MSA SS-12, Telonics Combo.

Clete Ritta · From: San Antonio, Texas

Ahh, the good old days. Remember adjusting azimuth? Oh, and dont forget demagnetizing heads and calibrating those playback VU meters on each track with a tiny screwdriver and a reference tone tape! Shocked

Clete

Daniel Policarpo · From: Kansas City

Solomon, I purchased a Fender Excelsior amplifier for just the reasons your post suggests. It really does sound like the old amps! Thinking about that, I am using a lot of newer stuff to approxiamte an older sound. We're using several mics (an Electro Voice condenser,a Radio Shack vocal mic, and an Avantone Ribbon), sometimes we use all of them, sometimes we'll use one or the other,into Korg 4 track cassette, into a radio shack mixer into a Behrigner U-control interface and mastering from there.
The Ribbon mic works great on the steel!
I guess we are getting a pretty good approximation, we are still experimenting. It can get very expensive and time consuming finding and using the real deal, but using stuff available today you can get the vibe. Most of the work we do is finding/setting the room up and mic placement..instrument/amplification prosimity and levels.
Going into a large room, but sitting close together seems to work best, though our drummer's kitchen/hallway/bathroom set up works great too! How is your project coming along , anyway?

Russ Wever · From: Kansas City

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