Attracting New Players

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 25 Sep 2012 5:16 pm

b0b,

Before ALVINO REY passed to the promised land, he performed in St. Louis at SCOTTY'S LABOR DAY CELEBRATION, that usually runs for three days. A friend of mine from Connecticut gave me a report on his performance, that stirred the emotions of another close friend of mine, when I repeated the words that were told to me. It seems that ALVINO REY had appeared here in Pittsfield MA., years ago. My guitarist friend Howard M. never backed up one inch thinking that ALVINO REY was the most knowledgeable player of the steel guitar. You should have seen Howard react when I repeated the words of the man from Connecticut. Previously, I had mentioned to the
gentleman from Ct. high praises concerning ALVINO R. He responded negatively at that point. Howard nearly "blew his top" upon hearing his words. These differences on this forum resemble real life situations from the past. b0b, I sincerely wish that your U.T.D.E. arrangement was on video. I would find that very interesting.

Charles Davidson · Post by **Charles Davidson** » 25 Sep 2012 7:18 pm

Under the Double Eagle is a very simple song to play on six string,steel,mandolin,five string,I was playing it many years ago on all the above.Any one that has trouble playing this tune at any tempo needs to put in some practice with Bill.

YOU BETCHA,DYK?BC.

Chuck Thompson · Post by **Chuck Thompson** » 25 Sep 2012 8:15 pm

now we're cookin with gas!!! hot chachaaaa!! - Bill you havent heard Under the Double Eagle until youve heard it played on the bars of a prison cell with a tin cup!!!

It was just the other day a young man asked what the contraption I was playing was. I told him it was a pedal steel. I played the intro to Guns and Roses song Sweet Child o Mine (I got the tab right here on the forum from Frank Freniere - Thanks Frank) The youngster said "cool! can you play any OTHER old songs?" I then played Under the Double Eagle - the kid said "well I dont know what the heck that was but it must have stood the test of time"....... $:\$

Ive no doubt that if Ernst and Dali were alive today that they would be fighting over who got to join this thread first

admin · Post by **b0b** » 25 Sep 2012 11:13 pm

Bill Hankey wrote:b0b, I sincerely wish that your U.T.D.E. arrangement was on video. I would find that very interesting.

I'm not well equipped for video, Bill, so I threw together a recording for you.

http://soundhost.net/2012/09/under-the-double-eagle/

Alan Tanner · Post by **Alan Tanner** » 25 Sep 2012 11:20 pm

Amazing........11 pages of bloviating and about a half dozen posts were actually about the subject......

Alan Berdoulay · Post by **Alan Berdoulay** » 26 Sep 2012 3:01 am

I concur. Who guides this ship?

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 26 Sep 2012 4:14 am

b0b,

What a pleasant surprise finding your recording of "Under The Double Eagle" this morning. It's a very impressive display of dexterity on your part. The element of surpise opened my eyes to the fact that you are not just whistling "Dixie". I enjoyed your arrangement of the tune. I would mention that BOB GARY played nonpedal steel. At that particular time, I was not aware of the techniques used to overcome more difficult melodies, such as bar bouncing, and pull-off skills. Thanks for the display of playing skill and proficiency on the pedal steel guitar.

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 26 Sep 2012 4:37 am

For those who may be interested in my comments about HOWARD the guitarist believing the mastery of ALVINO REY, check out the video of ALVINO and the KING SISTERS. Type in: ALVINO REY orchestra with the KING SISTERS- TIGER RAG.

admin · Post by **b0b** » 26 Sep 2012 7:26 am

Bill Hankey wrote:b0b,

What a pleasant surprise finding your recording of "Under The Double Eagle" this morning.

Your turn, Bill.

Seriously, I'm sure a lot of folks would like to hear you play. Send me an MP3 and I'll post it on SoundHost.net (music that you can't buy anywhere).

The offer is open to anyone reading this topic. Send me your non-commercial MP3 and I'll queue it up for you on Soundhost.net.

Theresa Galbraith · Post by **Theresa Galbraith** » 26 Sep 2012 10:15 am

I'd like to hear it too!

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 26 Sep 2012 10:35 am

Reading the most recent posts in this now ridiculously off-topic thread about "Double Eagle" and the back-and-forth between b0b and Bill regarding the bridge to the tune (actually the "B" section since there is also a third, or "C" section in Bb), I was tempted to respond to Bill's rejoinder about ALVINO REY and HOWARD, since I saw absolutely ZERO connection between UTDE and Bill's reply.

Then I realized "Herb, you're just responding to yet another abjectly obtuse, bait-and-switch non-sequiter of Bill's, obviously troll-bait designed to stroke his need for attention. Better to just let it sit, like you've told yourself hundreds of times before."

So that's what I'm doing, aren't I? Just letting it go by? I'm confused by all this.

Stuart Legg · Post by **Stuart Legg** » 26 Sep 2012 10:35 am

Bill as long as you cherry pick the data and apply multi-syllabic terminology without visual or audio proof it will be impossible to satisfactorily prove your point.
This is not unlike PSG players who conjured up opinions in odd ways: to abrogate responsibility or render a prejudice in deceptively objective terms thereby validating their shortcomings.
Let me give you an example of how this could work for you.
Audio proof: it appears b0b missed one note around 00.23 of his recording.
So you say: See there I told you so!!!

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 26 Sep 2012 10:51 am

FWIW, here's an E9 version of the "A" and "B" sections of UTDE, from one of my courses, played at teaching tempo, somewhat slower than what would be played at an actual performance.

Double Eagle

Appropriate for the experienced beginner or intermediate player, IMHO. Not difficult at all.

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 26 Sep 2012 10:58 am

Stuart,

No, better still, the incredible witticism of HERB STEINER should not be overlooked, in that he has pointed out the (C) part of "UNDER THE DOUBLE EAGLE", which I believe to be correct. My friend and great guitarist visited me a few weeks ago, and believe it or not he said to me, "A lot of people don't realize that there is a Bb part to that song"; which would be part (C). How very clever of both Russ and Herb to have this knowledge, and to share it with others at the appropriate time. Thanks Herb, I consider that bit of civility very noteworthy.

Pete Finney · Post by **Pete Finney** » 26 Sep 2012 11:09 am

Herb Steiner wrote:... obtuse, bait-and-switch non-sequiter of Bill's, obviously troll-bait designed to stroke his need for attention.

Thanks for putting it so clearly, Herb... for some reason it seems to be strongly discouraged or somehow unfair around here to point out the obvious.

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 26 Sep 2012 11:20 am

Pete, while I sometimes have to call 'em like I see 'em, let it also be said by your humble correspondent that I now consider Mr. H.'s posts more entertaining than annoying, and that I probably have personality quirks that are at least as irritating to those around me a lot, or even more so, than Bill's.

I've followed Bill on the Forum for a long time, and I know he's an intelligent man who's done a lot for steel guitar in his neck of the woods and has also come up with changes for steel guitar design that I find interesting in concept, the "Lucky 7" for one.

I do disagree with his communication style, true enough; and the essence of the Internet is... or should be... just that. But that's just MHO. In the grand scheme of things, Hankeyisms are no big whup in my book.

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 26 Sep 2012 11:45 am

Herb,

That middle part in your recording is unrelated to the original tune. PLEASE, all who would like to hear a better than average rendition, PLEASE type in, CHET ATKINS, HANK SNOW, "UNDER THE DOUBLE EAGLE, you tube. Let us go from there...

ROY CLARK recorded the song on his LIGHTNING FINGERS ALBUM. PLEASE check out when he shifts into high range, and imagine trying to follow him on nonpedal steel. Again, that's all I have to say about that.

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 26 Sep 2012 12:05 pm

b0b,

Please allow me some time in answering your request. I appreciate your response. I enjoy your rendition. It's a "keeper".

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 26 Sep 2012 12:09 pm

My middle section of the tune comes from my recollection of Merle Travis' performance on the Hank Thompson band's recording of the song. This is also the arrangement that goes from C to F and finally to Bb before modulating back to the original key.

To check my own accuracy, I did Youtube the song and went to the source: Namely, a performance of the original arrangement Unter Dem Doppeladler, by its composer, Josef Franz Wagner. John Phillip Sousa's arrangement is also very close, if not note-perfect, to the original.

"Under the Double Eagle (Unter dem Doppeladler)" is a march composed by Josef Franz Wagner (1856 1908). He was an Austrian military bandmaster and composer, sometimes known by the sobriquet 'The Austrian March King'. This march is referring to the double eagle in the coat of arms of the Austro-Hungarian empire.

In the original arrangement, my second section is played at approximately 1:25. There are no modulations in any of the marching band arrangements I've ever heard. The Hank Thompson arrangement seems original to that classic western swing band.

I've not heard the Chet Atkins or Hank Snow versions, but unless they're closer in spirit to the Wagner composition, I don't see how they're any more valid or correct than yours, mine, or Thompson's.

If you're referring to the F section in my arrangement, however, that appears to be original to Thompson's rendition.

Here's a link to the original composition http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJciJOCr ... re=related

And with that, I bid y'all a fond adieu to this thread.

Bo Legg · Post by **Bo Legg** » 26 Sep 2012 12:25 pm

"Lady can't you see we don't have a Tuba in this band."

Brother! Can you spare me the UM-Pah?

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 26 Sep 2012 2:15 pm

According to accounts, "UNDER THE DOUBLE EAGLE" was written at least a hundred years ago. When early country music instrumentalists heard and played the melody, they did so in such a way as to put the tune in the category of classical arrangements. I was not able to find two like recordings in my searches. Therefore, I conclude that those who have recorded the Austro-Hungarian March represent the work as stylists, playing the melody according to their own fashion or design.

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 26 Sep 2012 3:26 pm

Pete,

There are much more important issues to deal with, than pretending to be a know-it-all. I can assure you I'm 100 percent aware of my "surface intelligence". I wouldn't stand a ghost of a chance in a panel of educated English professors, asking pertinent questions about worldly affairs. It's painful realizing how little I know about important matters, such as maintaining good health in the face of danger.

admin · Post by **b0b** » 26 Sep 2012 4:29 pm

Herb's arrangement is much better than mine. He obviously studied the tune, where I just picked it up from people I was picking with. Thanks for posting it, Herb!

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 26 Sep 2012 5:30 pm

b0b,

I for one was pleasantly surprised this morning when I opened the link and heard your arrangement. It's something that interests me. You play some catchy note patterns, that proves you know your way around on the instrument.

Stuart Legg · Post by **Stuart Legg** » 26 Sep 2012 7:30 pm

Yep! Just like Bo around it on the way to a snack

A B & C? So Herb what do you call all those other missing parts?