Who would be interested in a new kind of Steel Show.........

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 10 Sep 2012 6:53 am

George, yes of course lap steel would be welcome; I can't imagine anyone in this conversation excluding it. There is, as yet, no proposed venue. This is all still in the brainstorming stage...

Mike Neer · Post by **Mike Neer** » 10 Sep 2012 7:06 am

We had a steel festival here in NYC a few years ago that I put together with a very diverse line-up. It was a Lap Steel festival (2 nights), and the turnout was great and most of those who attended were non-musicians, although there was a healthy number of musicians there.

I've always believe that shows like this should be held in clubs. It takes a very cooperative club, because of the tremendous amount of work involved, but it could be lucrative for them, as I believe it was at the show we did. We were asked to do it again the following year (I balked, but would love to do it again).

Joe Casey · Post by **Joe Casey** » 10 Sep 2012 7:35 am

In part I agree with PF's statement about hearing the same old same old all the time..On the other part nothing tried once means the next ten times will fail.

.I see this working if its a bring your own band thing..But even that becomes a lets blow these guys off the stage war..This is going to be tough to get going..Mainly because for it to work its going to need an audience of prospects.. Its just an Idea..I don't think this kind of a show can be a Steel Showcase.. Scottys show with the house band set up is 95 Country and maybe 5% jazz..I have seen when someone is different on the stage (and the houseband stays solid)but the audience of aged steelers thins out.Griping as they go..Its over their head because they only learned to like and play one genre....To make another point I remember when Wally Murphy asked me to take him to a jazz joint while he was in Town at a fair playing with Nick Nixon..I took him to a Jazz club that had a combo that was pretty good..Here comes this 6'4' Guy with a Cowboy hat and a steel in one hand and his Amp in the other and me with his effects case..I got him introduced (by showing them an article written on him in Guitar player,and they told him to set up.. I believe reluctantly..They stared at the contraption,bewildered to what he would sound like as they were thinking Oh no Cowboy music...It took them a while to give him a solo and they were lazily playing really good stuff..Finally the piano looked at Wally and gave him it's your turn sign..The band woke up fast,The crowd stopped dancing and wally gave them a lesson and a sound from an instrument that blew their minds..The next two sets were great,they even played over a bit and people kept looking at the steel and talking to Wally..He sold them on the instrument that night but they were just customers and three local working for tips musicians.. But lets face it Wally is a great player and a great representitive of vesitility..The hardest thing to do is convince Musicians the Steel belongs in all Genres..I worked Country all my musical life and I'm convinced..So work out your Idea ,It maybe won't be succesful overnight or maybe even in our lifetimes..Going out and sitting in with bands might be a way to start...Willy Nelson has played with almost everybody,Why???Because he sold himself as not just being one dimension..

Bo Legg · Post by **Bo Legg** » 10 Sep 2012 8:21 am

They don’t need a new show with a new genre they need to be able to acquire a PSG.

Until we start leasing PSGs like school band instruments to the young the PSG is going to be forever mostly handed down from relatives, a second instrument for the mature already musician or the retired irregardless the music genre.

Don Drummer · Post by **Don Drummer** » 12 Sep 2012 8:29 am

Bo,I agree. Let's start the the tots with a 4 string ala 8,7,6 and 5. and two pedals. I'm kinda of exploring this. I have a Carter Starter that I'll be using with just those strings.

Mickey Adams · Post by **Mickey Adams** » 12 Sep 2012 5:44 pm

I Knew that this thread would grow into a viral one...and rightly so..We are considering sanding the wood against the grain...But..Isn't that where ALL major changes in musical styles evolved?...When the first m3 was played over a major chord people went OWWWWWWW!!!>....Now look Thats been almost 40 years.....I have a list of songs I want to tackle...Lets Move!1

Mickey Adams · Post by **Mickey Adams** » 12 Sep 2012 5:44 pm

I Knew that this thread would grow into a viral one...and rightly so..We are considering sanding the wood against the grain...But..Isn't that where ALL major changes in musical styles evolved?...When the first m3 was played over a major chord people went OWWWWWWW!!!>....Now look Thats been almost 40 years.....I have a list of songs I want to tackle...Lets Move!1

Junior Knight · Post by **Junior Knight** » 12 Sep 2012 6:29 pm

enough of all the talk guys..its time for the guys that can play outside the box to do it. Guys like me can't do it..I'm to country and DANG proud of it I might add...But the guys that can play with new ideas, bring the players with you and then pick it. Thats the only way that the music will grow..We need it to happen so please do it!!

Jeremiah Hanley · Post by **Jeremiah Hanley** » 12 Sep 2012 6:59 pm

I think the steel guitar is too musical to get young people interested. They want crash bang, boom, boom! That's what their heros give them on stage. What they need is....find some popular young person that likes music, to bring this generation to the beauty of music, and not a lot of screech. I think the steel guitar is too beautiful of an instrument to captivate the young people of our day!!

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 12 Sep 2012 7:33 pm

Wow. Talk about overgeneralizations and stereotypes. Look, whatever you think of them Justin Bieber and Lady Gaga are not crash-boom-bang and they definitely appeal to millions of young people. Lots of other artists too.

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 13 Sep 2012 3:26 am

I keep thinking it just needs that one thing to kick it over. I mean, the woodwork is crawling with steelers who can play way beyond what they're ever asked, required (or PAID

) to do. I think back to that silly "steel guitar concerto" that Doug Livingston played on - where the composer gave the violins all the melody lines, and Earnest swooped safe little "steel pads" in the background, because, hey, how're composers supposed to know what instruments can do?

jeez, like work and all.

If Sting would just hire Dave Easley to handle solos on a tour/HBO special, if Daniel Lanois would score a detective movie with himself and a few hairier* steelers on an interesting soundtrack... wait a minute, I'm turning blue. Can I breathe yet?

But yeah, steel players, playing for other steel players only... usually speaking to the political spectrum, more than one person, (two even) have pointed out how the internet can actually be isolating, in that it's possible to find the thirteen people in the world who think exactly the same way you do and spend the rest of your life quoting each other to each other and lamenting the Great Unwashed. We need to drop steel guitars off of tall buildings onto people's heads**.

*(metaphorically)

**(______)

Joe Casey · Post by **Joe Casey** » 13 Sep 2012 5:41 am

Junior god bless you for all you have done and continue to do for our music...However I don't think its about hurting country music here... More so to promote an instrument, make more job openings for players who choose to play different genres...Its easy to win betting on a one horse race,But keeping that Horse alive is all important for the race to continue..

Junior Knight · Post by **Junior Knight** » 13 Sep 2012 9:28 am

Joe..Maybe I have worded my post wrong..I am ALL FOR taking the steel to diffrent kinds of music!!! I'm just bored with the talk...walk the walk..do it..make it happen because we need it to happen! We need younger people to play the steel AND to listen to the steel at the shows. I'm sorry if I came off like I didn't want this to happen...I DO want it to happen...

Joe Casey · Post by **Joe Casey** » 13 Sep 2012 2:05 pm

Junior you have always been a 1st class player and person in my book..I have been on here many times with my comments on the burying of Country music before it's dead..I'm also one who could never be anything but what I like to do..Thats Country music..

Johan Jansen · Post by **Johan Jansen** » 14 Sep 2012 3:42 am

OK, time for me to dial in now.
In 2000 I organised Steeldays, where we had players like Bruce Bouton, Jim Cohen, Dan Tyack, Dag Wolf,Al Brisco.
It was a big succes, with over 70 !! steelers to attend Bruce's lessons.

It costed us as foundation some money, we all payed to it, but we had a lot of fun.

In 2002 we organised Steeldays 2002, same concept, with workshops from Joe Wright and Dan Tyack. It rocked, but made a big log on our wallets, private savings went in it, so we stopped continueing, also due to the start from the financial crisis worldwide...

In 2005 Rene van Barneveld (AKA Tress Manos, rockguitarplayer from The Urban Dance Squad) and me got an invitation from The Dutch Broadcast Company to compose for a project, where the Steel- and Slideguitar where in the picture. There was a lot of money for this project, so we made a wishlist!
We got Derek Trucks with band, Buddy Cage, Dan Tyack, Sonny Landreth , Rene and me on stage. We did some big stages with this show, and we hoped to get all the exposure to promote the steelguitar. We had a lot of fun!
The audience loved it!

But still:
Crazy arms, way to survive, sleepwalk are the songs the big mass of people want to hear.
I don't believe those big projects will give a break-even point (money) but they make a lot of fun. People that are visiting or playing at those shows don't realize all stress the organisation goes through that sees their personal savings disappear.

I love those big meetings, but it should be organised with closed wallets, for everyone! Only meals, beer and coffee needs to be payed.

I love to attend those meetings!
JJ

Barry Blackwood · Post by **Barry Blackwood** » 14 Sep 2012 6:58 am

Posted 9/14/2012

But still:
Crazy arms, way to survive, sleepwalk are the songs the big mass of people want to hear.

And there you have it, folks. Draw your own conclusions.

Olli Haavisto · Post by **Olli Haavisto** » 14 Sep 2012 9:28 am

Well, left of mainstream stuff has always lived and thrived in clubs...
Maybe Mike Neer is right, that`s where it belongs ?
A long weekend somewhere with lots of clubs, like Austin maybe?
A steel/slide SXSW

Robert Harper · Post by **Robert Harper** » 16 Sep 2012 10:26 pm

The last Nashville show I attended a steel player played Cocaine, not my cup of tea and not some others ther, but he explaned his roots and I enjoyed his playing his courage and skill.He was younger and I believe from NY he may have connections fro the other genre's

Joe Goldmark · Post by **Joe Goldmark** » 18 Sep 2012 10:08 pm

I'm someone who tries to play songs outside the C&W mainstream when I do my album projects. The only time I've had success playing these tunes at a show was when I brought my band to Scottys. I've tried bringing charts to other shows and it's been a train wreck. I have to agree with Randy Beavers. You generally can't play different stuff with pick up bands. It's not fair to them or yourself.

Joe

Dave A. Burley · Post by **Dave A. Burley** » 18 Sep 2012 10:47 pm

Back in the seventies our 'Jamfests' were quite successful because we pitted the likes of the legendary Jimmy Bryant, jazz guitar, Johnny Gore on Sax, and many of you know that history with Les Paul and the jazzers with the steel players.
I can visualize a show featuring Brent Mason and Paul Franklin along with the rest of the steelers that would play. Believe it or not, if you have names like Brent and Paul it's not too hard to get some younger players from the jazz and rock field to be interested. After attending the Steel Guitar Convention this year I noticed a definite lack of young pickers. When I play weird stuff on my six string old National I find that many younger pickers at some jams that I play at really have an interest. Two are 12 years old and another is 16. They are rockers. If there are three in this small area there are probably several thousand youngsters out there in the world that are potential steel players. The three here dig the steel and want me to teach them. We introduced the pedal steel to a whole new world in 76 with the concert and recording in Dallas, Tex. that featured 5 top steel pickers and 5 top jazz guitar players along with a star studded rhythm section. It can be done and I hope you get it off the ground. The pedal steel guitar is the most versatile instrument in the world but we are not getting it promoted to the right people to draw newbies into our world. Good luck,
Dave A. Burley

ed packard · Post by **ed packard** » 23 Sep 2012 9:40 am

In this age of social networking are there some ways to use it to advance the "outside the box" approach to SG/PSG?

How about a "something different" section on Facebook etc.

My family has a family genealogy group sharing their thing on FB...could just as well be one for SG/PSG.

A lot less expensive than trips to steel shows for the younger set, and more on a "FRIEND" contact basis and lots of the younger folk already involved.

The Forum could have a section for "alternative steel" ...text and picking.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 23 Sep 2012 5:12 pm

I'd welcome a show that portrayed what steel could do in modern rock music, but I'm skeptical that young people would find "our" idea of rock music similar to theirs. Whenever players discuss this, I keep hearing mention of boss tones and songs like "Cocaine", "Hotel California", "Proud Mary", "Knights In White Satin", and of course, some of Hendrix's stuff. Judging by our song choices, it almost seems like rock music died about 35-40 years ago? I may be all wrong, but I don't think we'll attract really young people by having 40 to 50 year-old players playing old "classic" schlock rock. The young people we're trying to sway weren't even around when these songs faded from everywhere but corner bars.

I did a quick search on YouTube, and found that there are far more rock "covers" (old and new) played on accordion than there are on pedal steel. What does that say about our instrument as a whole? About its versatility? I feel that what we really need is for a young steeler in a prominent group to catch on, and then we need other young players to quickly join in the fray and get the instrument in front of young audiences on videos and on the web. But for the life of me, I can't think of any young players, young enough that they might appeal to 12-16 year-old girls, or to young women in their 20's, even. (Young guys, I have observed, always seem to mimic those who excite young ladies.

) To have a successful show and attract potential young players, it would seem to me that you first need young steel players playing young music.

Now...do we have any?

Barry Blackwood · Post by **Barry Blackwood** » 23 Sep 2012 7:25 pm

I think Elvis has left the auditorium …..

Dave A. Burley · Post by **Dave A. Burley** » 23 Sep 2012 8:43 pm

Great thread....A couple experiences.....Several months ago I was invited to go to a weekly jam session. Some old stuff but also some young kids playing rock. This one boy, 16 years old, had his head into wild rock. When I set up with my 6 string vintage National three legged steel, I could see the looks of these young kids all of them whispering back and forth and laughing. Long story short...I'm not great but I can improvise on about anything..After about a month these young guys started smiling at me when I enter and that 16 year old asked me if I would teach him how to play the steel....Another quick one....In 76 during the concert 'Cavalcade Of Guitars,' Some of the greatest jazz guitarists in the world at that time, Tal Farlow, Howard Roberts, Herb Ellis etc. were very excited about the possibility of recording an album with some of the steel pickers, Julian Tharpe, Buddy Emmons, Curly Chalker, Doug Jernigan and Maurice Anderson. Most of the jazz pickers had never picked with a great pedal steel player before and they immediately fell in love with the steel and agreed to record in studio albums with some of those great steel pickers. Those young uns' are out there, we just have to figure out a way to go get em'.
Dave A. Burley

Marc Jenkins · Post by **Marc Jenkins** » 23 Sep 2012 9:19 pm

I don't know, guys. I listen to a fair bit of newer music, some of it you may even call 'young people' music. I'm young around here at 37. Anyway, there is a lot of lap and pedal steel popping up on albums that reach a LOT of ears, from the likes of Dawes, Band of Horses, the Decemberists, Beck, Bon Iver, and more. Whenever I gig with a steel, I find myself in conversations with young guitar players from the audience who are aware of the instrument, and interested in trying steel at some point.

I guess what I'm trying to get at here is that I believe that steel guitar is being heard by young people, and is piquing some interest. I can't imagine that evangelizing is going to really reach more people that actually might want to play.

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