ZBs and cabinet drop

Dave Zirbel · Post by **Dave Zirbel** » 14 Oct 2002 10:17 pm

I'm giving my ZB D-10 another chance. I've been setting it up so I can play it out on a test run to see if I want to have it rebuilt by a professional.

Here is what's happening. The fifth string raise on my A pedal and C pedal for the E9 neck is tuned by a common endplate tuning screw. When I tune the 5th string raise by depressing the A pedal and then engage my C pedal, the note is flat. Almost a quarter step which is way too much for me and probably most players. I go back to the A pedal and it's fine. I don't notice much drop on the A and B pedals together, Just B and C.

Are any of you ZB players experiencing cabinet drop on these great sounding guitars?

Any advice will be appreciated.

Thanks, Dave Z [This message was edited by Dave Zirbel on 14 October 2002 at 11:19 PM.]

Ricky Davis · Post by **Ricky Davis** » 15 Oct 2002 1:11 am

Dave to understand what your talking about better...I need to ask?
You tune the "A" pedal 5th string raise and the "C" pedal 5th string raise; with the same tuning screw???
If so....and the "A" pedal 5th string(C#note) is fine.....but when you try the "C" pedal; then now the 5th string(C#note) is flat??? If so; than you need more pedal distance on the "C" pedal to get it to come up more towards the proper C# note....and there should be an adjustment under the guitar where the "C" pedal rod pulls a cross bar and stops.
Also if doing this(more distance for the "C" pedal) you will need to re-adjust your 4th string E to F# note on the tuning screw so it won't raise further than it was.
And then you said something about your noticing no drop on A and B pedals; but noticing a drop on B and C pedals?? What's dropping and what's not dropping???
Hope to help.
Ricky

Jim Florence · Post by **Jim Florence** » 15 Oct 2002 5:33 am

Rickys right about needing more travel, but
there's no adjustment on the guitar. You have to shorten the pull rod I've had mine since 1967, and that's what I like about them
there's nothing to get out of tune, and virtually no cabinet drop. The tuning screw is a positive stop, if the screw is pulling all the way in, [great] if it's not you've got to shorten a pull rod somewhere.

Dave Zirbel · Post by **Dave Zirbel** » 15 Oct 2002 6:28 am

Ricky, the 5th string raises for pedals A and C are tuned by the same endplate screw. The raise is stopped by the endplate screw completely engaging at the endplate. I don't think that the pull rod length has anything to do with this problem. It just requires more pedal travel since the stop is at the endplate and not under the guitar on the pedal or cross shaft. See what I mean? I'll take a closer look at it again tonight. Maybe the bridge is loose. I just put the thing together last weekend.

Thanks guys. Dave[This message was edited by Dave Zirbel on 15 October 2002 at 07:30 AM.]

B. Greg Jones · Post by **B. Greg Jones** » 15 Oct 2002 8:01 am

Dave, if the C pedal is coming in flat, you probably will have to shorten that pedal rod. Also, is the single tree(equalizer) binding on something. If this doesn't move freely, it wont work. Also the turnbuckle on the pull rod could be hanging up on something else under the guitar. I have seen this happen where hey "catch" another pedal's cross strap, and wont complete the raise/lower. As long as the endplate screw is bottomed out you should be able to get it to pitch. The lowereing return spring needs to be tight enough so that the lowering finger doesn't move when that string is raised. I have seen this happen too. Do you have the 5th string lower on your guitar? If not, don't tighten the lowering tuning screw all the way to the endplate. Back it off just a little. When these are tight, most of the time they put the changer finger in a bind and will give you problems with the raise.

Jim is right about cabinet drop. I am working on his and just dropped it down the stairs. Didn't seem to hurt it at all!!!! LOL Just kidding Jim!!!

Hope some of this info helps. Keep us posted!!!!

Greg

Ricky Davis · Post by **Ricky Davis** » 15 Oct 2002 8:03 am

Cool Dave; check it out and let us know.
So you just put her together??? Was there any parts left over??ha....

only kiddin'.
I bet you can figure how to get that "C" pedal to travel further and not affect the "A" pedal....
Good luck.
P.S.....as I was posting this; I saw that the Great Greg Jones posted and if anyone knows about the ZB> he does.....
Ricky[This message was edited by Ricky Davis on 15 October 2002 at 09:06 AM.]

Dave Zirbel · Post by **Dave Zirbel** » 15 Oct 2002 8:40 am

Greg, the endplate screw is bottomed out. That's whay I'm concerned. When I get home from work tonight I'll check to see if the lowering screw is moving with the raise screw.

Ricky, the C6 is in pieces right now so at the rate I'm going, I won't know if there will be any leftover parts probably for a few months. I should let the pros handle this!

Thanks again, Dave Z

richard burton · Post by **richard burton** » 15 Oct 2002 11:23 am

Dave,
Make sure that your C pedal is not hindered by soft carpet. I read a post on here some time ago where someone altered all his adjustments, then realised he was set up on deep pile carpet, which was stopping pedal travel.

Jody Sanders · Post by **Jody Sanders** » 15 Oct 2002 11:41 am

My ZB (60's model) does not have a "C" pedal. The B/C effect is accomplished with a knee lever raising the 4th string to F#. I have 7 floor pedals and 3 knee levers. 2 pedals on E9th and 5 pedals on C6th. No cabinet drop. This guitar was originally set up for Bobby Garrett. I aquired it in 1970 and played it for 5 years. Still looks good, sounds good, and plays good. Jody.

Larry Chung · Post by **Larry Chung** » 15 Oct 2002 1:17 pm

Hey Dave:

Greetings from the City by the Bay. Listen to what Greg Jones said. Check the underside for any rods or connections that may be rubbing up against each other. The knobby rod ends that attach to the changer often stick on ZBs. You may be able to just connect the rod around to the other side of the changer finger and reduce the contact between pull rods - if they are currently on the same side of string 5 for both A & C pedals.

I seriously need to invest in a ZB dictionary for parts and proper terminology . . . Greg, can I borrow your copy?

Also, check the tuning screws on the endplate for each string of the affected pedals (A&C). You may also want to check the rollers for each of those strings, too. It's surprising how important a smooth travel is for each string . . .

The thing I've learned about strings coming up sharp or flat on ZBs is to check both strings that are affected by the same pedal or lever - in this case, strings 5 AND 10, and 5 AND 4, not just 5. Often, a bit of friction or resistance on one string will absolutely affect the proper functioning of the entire change/pedal.

Good luck and hope this helps - don't give up on the ZB!

(:
lc

------------------
Larry Chung
ZB D-10 8+4; ZB Custom S-11 4+4; ZB Student Model 3+1 Yeeeeahhh, Bay-Bee.

Dave Zirbel · Post by **Dave Zirbel** » 15 Oct 2002 6:43 pm

Problem solved!!
I adjusted the return spring tension. The lower screw was moving with the raise screrw and not allowing the string to come up to pitch.

DZ

Bob Mainwaring · Post by **Bob Mainwaring** » 15 Oct 2002 9:56 pm

Glad you have sorted it all our Dave and things are back to normality.
One of the things I did on one of my Z.Bs was to alter the turnbuckle end by making it more "bullet" shaped to allow for sliding by another one close by; the original "squared off end" usualy makes a little stumbling block otherwise they wont glide pass each other without doing the little modification.

Bob Mainwaring.Z.Bs. and other weird things

------------------

Chick Donner · Post by **Chick Donner** » 17 Oct 2002 12:09 pm

Yeah, Greg, it won't hurt Jim's guitar . . . mine fell out of a helicopter in Vietnam on a USO tour I did in 1970 or 71, and it didn't even knock it out of tune!!

BTW, I'll be seeing you in LEX.