Your Input On This Please

Joseph Barcus · Post by **Joseph Barcus** » 21 Sep 2012 10:42 am

guys need some opinions now this isnt anything important. and I am not being mean here and I am sure the intent from the other person was not meant that way as well. it was a comment left on one of my videos on you tube is all and again just checking to see who likes what ways better is all and thats all I am after from this. the video will be inserted below heres the comment
"Geez! Strange way to learn. I studied music, did all exams on pedal steel, instead of piano, violin, guitar or clarinet. I use piano score for pedal steel, play all scales, major, minor melodic and harmonic, without moving the steel or sliding. Can "strum" all scales in full chords. The only way to learn to play is to study music first, and only after doing this, the only thing to learn, is the technique to play any instrument you choose." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3aaV_yddQvY

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 21 Sep 2012 10:54 am

Joseph Barcus wrote:The only way to learn to play is to study music first, and only after doing this, the only thing to learn, is the technique to play any instrument you choose."

I take issue with this statement, at least as far as the PSG is concerned. I have consistently advocated learning how to read music, (and once again, I have written a short article on how to do it which I will send for free to anybody who E-mails me asking for it.) But IMHO, although the statement applies to many other instruments, in the case of steel, people need to learn to play by ear and tab first, and then learn how to read music and apply that knowledge to the steel later.

Les Anderson · Post by **Les Anderson** » 21 Sep 2012 11:51 am

I know many gifted and advanced musicians who never studied music theory but are at a level of playing that most can never achieve.

An indepth of studying music ( is my opinion) lends to playing with a brittle mechanical attitude to everything the musician plays. I have found through my more than sixty years of music that a musician who has learned by ear has a much broader range of playing outside the envelope and adlibing on the spot than does a studied musician. I know that those who have studied music and all its theories will disagree with is statement; however, that’s just fine. Everyone believes their method is the only right method.

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 21 Sep 2012 12:00 pm

Joe, I'd ignore that comment. This is the one that really got me -

The only way to learn to play is to study music first, and only after doing this, the only thing to learn, is the technique to play any instrument you choose.

The idea that the "only" way to learn anything is to surgically separate and first study theory until mastered - and then and only then do the "easy" part, practice/technique - is a load of crap. I don't care whether it's music, math, physics, or any other kind of rocket science.

My opinion - learning anything serious requires a combination of a strong passion about actually "doing" it, and also a proper study of important principles and theory. I personally think it's better to do both concurrently and let them blend together. Theory without practice is pretty hollow, and practice without theory can get pretty limited. Again, my opinion.

This statement makes me wonder what this person is thinking:

I use piano score for pedal steel, play all scales, major, minor melodic and harmonic, without moving the steel or sliding. Can "strum" all scales in full chords.

Of course, being able to read a standard notation score is great, but playing without moving the steel and "strumming" all scales in full chords seems to be beside the point for the vast majority of steel playing, to me. When was the last time you had a chance to do a full "strum" on E9, and if you're not gonna move the bar, why play steel guitar? Again, nothing wrong with being able to do this stuff, but it seems like a pretty limited view of what to do with a steel guitar to me.

Mike Archer · Post by **Mike Archer** » 21 Sep 2012 12:15 pm

Joe I wouldnt pay any attention to that comment
while it is great to read music your ear and your hands are most important and your HEART
ive never read music other then the nashville
number system ive been playing 30 years
20 of them pro until lI got sick and couldnt
I teach as well and you do a great service to the steel world my hats off to you
keep going dont look back
Mike

Ransom Beers · Post by **Ransom Beers** » 21 Sep 2012 2:00 pm

"As per your comment on Joe Barcus's teaching tubbie.I have always learned from watching others that know more than I do about music,no I never studied music,I learned to play by ear & trying to do what others have done but putting my own twist to it as it were.Not saying you're wrong in your thinking but there are a lot of top notch players out there that have learned the same way I did.All the books in the world & all the colleges won't make you a player,first & foremost ya gotta have a smidgen "O" talent,the rest will fall into line."

My comment on the other guy's channel,hope it don't piss him off but if it do,oh well.

Ransom Beers · Post by **Ransom Beers** » 21 Sep 2012 2:04 pm

I met a guy in San Antone who could play every note to a song & never miss a note (until you took his music sheet away,then he couldn't play squat!!!)Just sayin'!!

Ellis Miller · Post by **Ellis Miller** » 21 Sep 2012 2:06 pm

First of all, I would not take a comment on a Youtube video that seriously. Many who comment don't have any idea what they are talking about, and many who are knowledgable do not post.

I often ponder the possibility that the only redeeming quality of critics is that they themselves are subject to criticism.

Ransom Beers · Post by **Ransom Beers** » 21 Sep 2012 2:15 pm

This could be one 'o' them thar "prima donas" I've refereed too.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Not you above,the other prima dona

Les Anderson · Post by **Les Anderson** » 21 Sep 2012 3:02 pm

A second comment here if it is not considered rude. I wouldn’t pay any attention to any comments on YouTube that runs down you or your playing or theory. Firstly, the commenter is hiding behind a hidden identity, which means he/she can post any comment he/she chooses without having to justify the comment.

I posted a video on Youtube about a year ago and had three racially oriented posts because I was playing on a D8 Guya steel guitar. The other four comments were very complimentary on the playing ability with two thinking the steel was a Fender Stringmaster. The three racially oriented comments caused me to remove the video purely out of disgust.

Stick with what you believe in and don’t let the idiots deter your good work.

Bill McCloskey · Post by **Bill McCloskey** » 21 Sep 2012 3:29 pm

Let's change this slightly to know how ridiculous it is: "The only way to learn to sing is to study music first..."

The voice is an instrument after all.

Stephen Cowell · Post by **Stephen Cowell** » 21 Sep 2012 3:55 pm

If you want to play music from paper, you have to practice it... if you want to *jam*, you have to practice *that*. Theory helps both... but you still have to grow a pair of ears, and IMO jamming/copping does that better than reading.

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 21 Sep 2012 4:33 pm

a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

Storm Rosson · Post by **Storm Rosson** » 21 Sep 2012 5:56 pm

:aside:BS... Only time in 25+ yrs I ever had to read script ,was 1 session gig. Most always the old block number charts...

The voice is an instrument after all(end quote)\....when I once had to join the union in Phoenix, the bandleader got pissed cause they wouldn't issue him a card ,as a singer wasn't considered a musician unless they played an instrument professionally. So we had to say he played cowbell and he got his card LOL....what a maroon

Andy Sandoval · Post by **Andy Sandoval** » 21 Sep 2012 6:46 pm

Joe, if this guy has all this knowledge why is he even interested in viewing lessons online anyway???

Sounds like hogwash to me.

I dig your lessons so keep em comin boy!

Wally Taylor · Post by **Wally Taylor** » 21 Sep 2012 7:04 pm

What Andy said!

Joseph Barcus · Post by **Joseph Barcus** » 21 Sep 2012 8:03 pm

thanks guys for your input

Edward Meisse · Post by **Edward Meisse** » 21 Sep 2012 9:11 pm

What music theory is for is to train your ear. There are other ways. It also provides a language for talking about what you have heard. While it is probably the most efficient method for doing that, it once again isn't the only way to do it.

Ransom Beers · Post by **Ransom Beers** » 22 Sep 2012 12:28 pm

I used to play by ear,then my gurlfren bought me some picks,she's a sweetie(guess she got tired of me yellin' in pain)

Or was it my playin' she got tired of,hmmmm,no wonder she left!

Bill Ladd · Post by **Bill Ladd** » 22 Sep 2012 1:25 pm

Joseph -- I'm a huge fan of Django Reinhardt. I've read from multiple histories that not only could he not read music and knew nothing of academic theory, he could barley read or write.

Considering he's probably either directly or indirectly influenced just about every guitar player that's ever walked the planet, I'd say he did alright without the book learning.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 22 Sep 2012 2:04 pm

I wonder? How many pedal steel players (that is, in the whole world) can do a "cold" sight read on a complex chart, and play it correctly, and with authority? Maybe 100? Less?

I feel pretty confident that tens of thousands of pianists can do it.

Larry Bressington · Post by **Larry Bressington** » 22 Sep 2012 2:16 pm

Show's the name to be 'WILLIE NELSON 02'... Mmmm, sound's like a cyber joker to me?..... Or maybe, Willie was having a whiskey and a little too much....

Buck Reid · Post by **Buck Reid** » 22 Sep 2012 5:10 pm

A good friend of mine once said... "don't clutter up your mind with a whole lot of knowledge".

Daniel Policarpo · Post by **Daniel Policarpo** » 22 Sep 2012 7:30 pm

Statement sounds like a bitter piano teacher.-Dan Policarpo, bitter PSG novice

Dave Grafe · Post by **Dave Grafe** » 23 Sep 2012 5:12 pm

A wise fellow once said:

"Them that got it don't talk, them that talk don't got it."

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