MSA will not record Sounds crazy to me

Eddie Malray · Post by **Eddie Malray** » 13 Oct 2002 4:13 pm

Hey guys and gals: I'm back again with another question. Sometime ago I was in a steel mfg. shop in Nashville and the subject of MSA came up. One of the guys that was building a guitar told me that a MSA would not record. I rescently heard that same remark. This sounds like a CROCK to me. seems to me if a guitar puts out a signal that can be heard through an anp that a recorder will pick it up. I owned an Msa once and it sounded great. Probably had the best sounding C6 neck I've ever heard. I can"t imiage that It would not record as well as any other guitar. However I know about as much about electronics as I do Playing so lets here it. Thanks, EDDIE MALRAY

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 13 Oct 2002 5:16 pm

Very true, the MSA will not "record". But then again neither will any other steel that I know of.

There are some keyboards that will record (they have built-in tape or hard-drive recorders).

Might I suggest an old Roberts, Webcor, Akai, DuKorder, or a newer recorder if you really want to "record" something.

At any rate...I think...by now...you realize you have been "spoofed" by me...as well as that other guy in the repair shop!

Post by **Joey Ace** » 13 Oct 2002 5:49 pm

I was just listening to L.T. Zinn's CD today. I was thinking how well his old MSA recorded.

Forumite Mike P. recorded the entire score of "West Side Story" and "Firebird Suite" on his MSA.

Is this a serious question?
[This message was edited by Joey Ace on 13 October 2002 at 06:52 PM.]

Gary Walker · Post by **Gary Walker** » 13 Oct 2002 5:54 pm

I recorded my MSA many times and it also had a killer C6 on my D-12 and the E9 wasn't too bad either.

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 13 Oct 2002 5:56 pm

Shall I notify Maurice? Perhaps send back all his CDs I've been enjoying all these years, and tell him they were actually blank?

Bob Blair · Post by **Bob Blair** » 13 Oct 2002 6:01 pm

And while you're at it Jim, don't forget your Curly Chalker tapes! (You can send them to me if you want....).

Post by **Joey Ace** » 14 Oct 2002 6:49 am

Does the MSA in question have strings on it?
That could be the problem.

Maurice, Curley, and the others always used strings. I'm not sure about Mike P.

I'll bet the new MSA records digital.

Rex Thomas · Post by **Rex Thomas** » 14 Oct 2002 7:28 am

Yeah, Joey!

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 14 Oct 2002 7:35 am

As Joey pointed out, I use MSA guitars (with strings) exclusively, and both my CDs were cut with them.

The idea that a brand, any brand, won't record is ridiculous. If it has a pickup, it makes a sound that can be recorded. Period.

Maybe the guys who are saying that just don't like the MSA sound. I've said this before but it's worth repeating. To compare an MSA to an Emmons is like comparing a hollow body jazz guitar to a Telecaster. It inherently has a different kind of tone. Just like you can never get that hollow body to sound like a tele, you can never get an MSA to sound like an Emmons, and those who try only succeed in losing the guitar's natural tone.

The secret to making an MSA guitar sound good is to set your amp in such way as to bring out that natural tone, with lots of mids and less treble. (I turn treble knob all the way to zero.) If you do this right, you get a beautiful mellow sweet tone. You don't get a twangy sound, and if that's what you want, you should try another brand that's more condusive to that kind of tone.

Listen to Reece and Chalker to hear what an MSA can sound like when it's played by guys who know what to do with it.

Michael Johnstone · Post by **Michael Johnstone** » 14 Oct 2002 9:04 am

I think when the guy made the remark in question it was hillbillyspeak for "I don't like the recorded sound of an MSA" Duh...

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 14 Oct 2002 11:42 am

Here's what I've gathered from folks who make comments like "MSA will not record":

Some guitars are easier to mix than others. They put out a tighter frequency range and harmonic series. They "find their own place on the tape". Producers like these guitars because they don't have to spend as much time getting the steel sound "right".

Of course, this assumes that the producer wants the steel to play the conventional role as a lead instrument in a country song with fiddle, guitar and piano. Certain guitars have a frequency response that "fits in" better than others, to get that familiar country sound.

With the tools available in the studio today, I believe that any recorded steel sound can be tailored to a mix pretty well. Nevertheless, there's no denying that certain guitars require a lot less tweaking to get a good mix. This is true of amps as well.

In general, the list of guitars that find their place in the mix easily includes most Emmons and Franklin guitars, and some Sho-Bud models. I'm sure there are other specific guitars as well, but I'm not sure that any other brand has established as strong of a reputation in the studio environment.

More commercially successful tracks have been recorded with Emmons, Franklin or Sho-Bud than with other brands. Record producers are conservative, especially in Nashville, and they tend to stick with what they know will work. So, it's not really that "MSA will not record", but what guitar do you want to play if you want to specialize in recording. If you're playing an MSA (or a Sierra!), the producer will ask "Why?". Do you have a good answer?

And beyond that, does your guitar find its place in the mix as easily as the big 3? Time is money in the studio. I'm willing to pay for the time to tweak my Sierra on my own tracks, and people who record in Sonoma County aren't trying to get that Nashville sound anyway. But if I were looking at "the big time", I'd be a lot more concerned about finding a guitar that records well in the Nashville studio environment.

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/b0b.gif" width="64" height="64">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (F Diatonic), Sierra Laptop 8 (D13), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6), Roland Handsonic

Kyle Bennett · Post by **Kyle Bennett** » 14 Oct 2002 11:59 am

Here is an email we recieved a few weeks ago with regards to MSA Millennium recording .

From: "Patrick McGuire" patrick@pmrec.com
To: reece@msapedalsteels.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 8:23 AM

Hi Reece,

Patrick McGuire here. I just wanted to write and let you know what a pleasure it was working with you and your new Millennium pedal steel guitar. As a producer / engineer in the D/FW area for over 20 years, I have worked with every pedal steel guitar you can imagine. As you know, I've always
been a fan of the old MSA guitars, so when I heard about the new guitars, I wondered what you could do to make them better. Your new guitar quite simply blew me away. It is better in every way than anything I have recorded before. The tone is warm yet clear and very solid. It is very even up and
down the neck. There are no noises to work around... just great sound. You have a winner. From the standpoint of an engineer who's been in the business for awhile, I would say that the new Millennium would be a great asset for any pedal steel guitarist. Given a choice between two equal players, I
would chose the one with the Millennium!!

Thanks,

Patrick McGuire, President
Patrick McGuire Recording Inc.
Arlington, Texas

Johnny Cox · Post by **Johnny Cox** » 14 Oct 2002 4:53 pm

Eddie, It is a CROCK! How can anyone make such a statement about a guitar I'm almost positive they have yet to hear? I'll let you know how it records very soon.

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Johnny Cox
So many steels, so little time.

Eddie Malray · Post by **Eddie Malray** » 14 Oct 2002 5:05 pm

Thanks guys for your replies, especially your Bobbe Lee. I knew that a lot of the best players played and recorded with MSA's. I had a MSA once and it was a great guitar. The only reason I traded it was because it only had two knee levers. I wanted four. I wanted a new MSA and even talked to Reese a couple of times on the phone about it. Problem was I did'nt have the ready cash and he could'nt provide an E-Z Payment Plan. A local Music store that I had dealt with a lot said he could fix me up with an Emmons on the credit, so I let him. I knew nothing about an Emmons but I figured if it was good enough for the man in the derby hat it would be good enough for me. Thats why I don't have a MSA. AS far as them not recording, I knew that was "CRAP" but I just wanted to hear it from someone else. Thanks EDDIE MALRAY

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 14 Oct 2002 5:11 pm

How can anyone make such a statement about a guitar I'm almost positive they have yet to hear?

Johnny, I am guessing that the statement was made about the old MSAs and not the Millenium.

Personally I can't wait to see and hear them.

Peewee Charles · Post by **Peewee Charles** » 14 Oct 2002 5:37 pm

I had the opportunity of spending 7 months studying with Reese in Dallas many years ago when I was a young player with a dream! I had probably the best & most learned time of my life & can thank Reece for everthing he taught me, that gave me the opportunities that followed in my career. Reece & Jerry were great people with a lot of integrity. I was playing Emmons at the time, actually a guitar I bought from Rick Price. I switched to MSA in Dallas & on my return to Canada got the gig playing with "The Great Speckled Bird" on the National TV Show, Ian Tyson Show, backing many International Artists for 4 years. The MSA performed & recorded great! I was then called to play on the Gordon Lightfoot album, "Rainy Day People", after which I was asked to join his band & toured Internationally for 14 years, performing worldwide in front of 20000+ per night at his prime! The MSA never let me down on stage or in the studio. I used my MSA on all of his recordings, of which there were over 10 million albums sold worldwide with the MSA guitar. I also performed on Anne Murray's biggest album, selling over 2 million "Let's Keep It That Way" You Need Me with my MSA. Jingles & music score etc..... I can't thank Reece & the bunch for everything they did for me & a guitar that never let me down on the road or in the studio! I am presently very excited about there new "Millenium Guitar", if it's anything like the old MSA'S, they are leading edge technolgy with the support of great people! I wish them all the best! I hope to be playing the guitar soon, that has never let me down & take the steel guitar into a new era!

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 14 Oct 2002 5:47 pm

Um... I think we've just read the definitive answer to this question. Thank you Pee Wee.

Michael Brebes · Post by **Michael Brebes** » 15 Oct 2002 6:35 am

I think some of that misconception could have come from a statement made by Paul Franklin years ago when he said that he loved the sound of the MSA in a live situation but not in the studio. Everybody has different tastes for what they like to hear. I personally was not overly impressed with the sound of my S10 (single coil pickup) or my D10 (Super Sustain pickups) when I recorded them and that is why I opted to replace the pickups with L710s. After that I was totally pleased with the way they recorded. It all comes down to what sound you're going for.

Matt Steindl · Post by **Matt Steindl** » 15 Oct 2002 7:53 am

This is a ridiculous topic. I dont have any experience w/ MSA, Emmons, or Sho~Bud, but I am certain w/ a good mic. pre. and some EQ, you could make any PSG sit well in the mix.

Mike P. mentioned a Tele, and thats a perfect example. To me they sound thin and whiney on their own, but they sure sit pretty in the mix.

Not too into the whole amp/mic. modeling thang, but I have heard some amazing tracks modeled to sound like far more ditsinctive and expensive gear.

Some of the hottest recordings have been made w/ cheap ass gear, and it will sound better than some talentless schmuck w/ a $5000 rig.

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David Wright · Post by **David Wright** » 15 Oct 2002 10:53 am

Hi Pee wee I remember your 7 months in Dallas, anyone out there that has a chance to study with Maurice should do so, and as far as the new guitar , I played one in St Louis, what a great guitar, and great people behind it.....

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Fred Shannon · Post by **Fred Shannon** » 15 Oct 2002 11:13 am

Yeh, proof's in the puddin' ....I just received Mike Perlowin's CD "West Side Story" and if you don't believe a MSA will make a good recording, gander at this little tidbit.

Mike applies some of the most innovative licks to a steel guitar, both pedal and lap, you'll ever hear. He darn sure had strings on these instruments.

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The spirit be with you!!