Help with Fender 2000

Clinton Kirby · Post by **Clinton Kirby** » 12 Oct 2002 12:22 pm

I'm new to pedal steel, so forgive me...

I just got a Fender 2000 last week. It was shipped without strings on it, so I couldn't see how it was done to begin with.

The problem is, the strings that I've put on make contact with the pickup--they just lay right across it. I have taken the pickup out--it could possibly go lower, but probably not low enough.

I've taken the string mute and the whole back plate off to see if I could raise that part of it, but that doesn't seem practical.

Today I took it to Music City Instruments, which is near where I live. They suggested that there was a pickup cover missing which would serve as a bridge. They suggested I try Scotty's, and they told me that the pickup cover was just a cover.

Am I missing a bridge? A pickup cover? I am missing my sanity, because I didn't think simply putting strings on would be this difficult. There's probably one simple thing I'm missing, but I can't figure out what it is.

I know the Fender steels aren't made anymore and you kind of have to luck into parts and/or people who know about them, but has this happened to anyone? I would appreciate any assistance in alleviating this problem.

Sorry for the post length,

Clinton

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 12 Oct 2002 12:49 pm

The Fender 2000 had two 10-string necks and 8 pedals. Is that really what you have?

The manual for the Fender 1000 is online at http://www.edusoft.ca/1000/ . I don't know how different the 2000 was from the 1000, other than the fact that it had 10 strings per neck instead of 8.

Clinton Kirby · Post by **Clinton Kirby** » 12 Oct 2002 12:58 pm

Bobby,

Thanks for your reply. Yes, this steel has 2 10-string necks, 10 pedals (2 added by previous owner?) and one knee lever. I've seen the 1000 manual--it just doesn't address what my problem seems to be. The strings that I've put on lay across the pickup, actually making contact with pickup. Of course that's not how it's supposed to be, but as I said, there seems to either a missing bridge (the 1000 manual mentions and displays its bridge) or missing knowledge on my part. Do you think anyone has a 2000 manual anywhere?

Thanks,

Clinton

Bill Ford · Post by **Bill Ford** » 12 Oct 2002 3:54 pm

Clint,
Sounds like the bridge at the pickup is missing,also if it's like the 400 it will have C hooks for the strings on the changers.Look for 2 small threaded holes between the pickup and where the strings hook to the changers,that is where the bridge goes.the bridge(if memory serves correctly)is a round bar/shaft aprox. 3/8" dia.maybe 1/2".Find "Moon"and talk to him.he has a Fender.Or Donny Hinson.

Bill

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Bill Ford[This message was edited by Bill Ford on 12 October 2002 at 04:59 PM.]

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 13 Oct 2002 7:51 am

Was the bridge separate from the changer on these guitars?

Doug Seymour · Post by **Doug Seymour** » 13 Oct 2002 8:24 am

Good heavens, I can't believe there's no one out there in Forum land that can't jump in here with the answer. I had 400s and they had the solid bar as the the bridge, but I was thinking (remembering?) the 800 & the 2000 didn't have the bar, but instead the bridge was, as b0b is suggesting, part of the changer finger?? A picture is worth 1,000 words!

Clinton Kirby · Post by **Clinton Kirby** » 13 Oct 2002 8:33 am

I got an email from Carl saying that he's pretty sure the changers ARE the bridge, and that maybe someone installed a tall non-Fender pickup that might have had a cover doubling as a bridge. That makes sense, because as he also pointed out, neither the changers nor the current pickup can be raised or lowered. If the pickup was flush with the body, I think that would be workable.

Here's what I did as a temporary solution, though. I turned the string mutes over so that the cork part is touching the body, and now the strings lay across the smooth metal underside of the mutes. It acts as a bridge, sounds decent, and the strings no longer lay across the pickup. I'll probably use that until I can get a new pickup or retrofit a new bridge. Carl also suggested that Gene Fields might know what's going on.[This message was edited by Clinton Kirby on 13 October 2002 at 09:38 AM.]

Jackie Anderson · Post by **Jackie Anderson** » 13 Oct 2002 10:35 am

I don't know where the real Fender experts, are, but my 2000 is stock standard with 10 strings on each neck and 10 pedals. There is no bridge separate from the changer fingers themselves -- generally considered to have been an advance with regard to string breakage. The stock pick-ups adjust up and down, but the screws may be stuck, the springs not "springy" or perhaps a previous owner stuck something underneath them -- or, as it sounds, maybe they are not stock. The originals are narrow, single-coil type. If they have been replaced with something higher, perhaps the pockets just need to be routed out deeper.

Earnest Bovine · Post by **Earnest Bovine** » 13 Oct 2002 11:29 am

Clinton, the 12th fret should be exactly halfway bewteen the nut and the bridge. If the 12th fret is exactly halfway between the nut and the changer, then the changer is the bridge.

basilh · Post by **basilh** » 13 Oct 2002 11:31 am

could it be that clinton's putting the strings through the individual bridge from the back instead of threading it through and over.
Baz
http://www.waikiki-islanders.com/html/basil_bio.html
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Steel players do it without fretting

http://www.waikiki-islanders.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk

[This message was edited by basilh on 13 October 2002 at 12:32 PM.]

Clinton Kirby · Post by **Clinton Kirby** » 13 Oct 2002 1:27 pm

Perhaps that's the key. Now that I look at them, the changers are kind of worn on top in the middle, and it looks like that could have been done by strings being stretched across them. So the strings should go into the changers from the pickup side, come out the back, across the top of the changers and down the neck? Do I have that right?

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 13 Oct 2002 3:21 pm

I think you've got it, Clinton! The strings go over the top of the changer.

What's this about mutes? I've never heard of mutes on a steel guitar.

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/b0b.gif" width="64" height="64">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (F Diatonic), Sierra Laptop 8 (D13), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6), Roland Handsonic

HowardR · Post by **HowardR** » 13 Oct 2002 4:06 pm

b0b....I got your mute!..

That white knob moves the lever which raises and lowers the mute.

Clinton, I hope this helps...

[This message was edited by HowardR on 13 October 2002 at 05:07 PM.][This message was edited by HowardR on 13 October 2002 at 05:12 PM.]

Clinton Kirby · Post by **Clinton Kirby** » 13 Oct 2002 4:16 pm

EUREKA!!!

I knew you guys knew the score!! I've been reading this forum for a couple of years now, and someone always seems to know the answer! Howard and Baz--you guys rock!!

The pictures help immensely! OK, now that problem's solved. Now if I could just hook up the cables right

Thanks to everyone who replied--everyone was very helpful!

Howard, I guess I'll find out soon enough, but is the mute useful at all?[This message was edited by Clinton Kirby on 13 October 2002 at 05:19 PM.]

HowardR · Post by **HowardR** » 13 Oct 2002 4:22 pm

Clinton, if you need a photo from "down under", just say the word.....

I'm not much of a player, but I never use it when I do play. I kinda wonder if anybody else does. I also wonder if the purpose of the mute was to keep the strings from vibrating sympathetically.[This message was edited by HowardR on 13 October 2002 at 05:28 PM.]

Clinton Kirby · Post by **Clinton Kirby** » 13 Oct 2002 4:27 pm

A photo from "down there" would be delightful, if it ain't too much trouble. I'm making the connections OK, but as soon as I get 3 or 4 of the pedals working correctly, the 5th causes some binding. From what I've read, it's not supposed to be difficult, and for the most part it's not, but still...

Jody Carver · Post by **Jody Carver** » 13 Oct 2002 4:50 pm

Howard
Look close,,,some of your screws are missing

Jody Carver · Post by **Jody Carver** » 13 Oct 2002 4:52 pm

bOb
Howard has everything,he even has me

HowardR · Post by **HowardR** » 13 Oct 2002 4:59 pm

Jody,...I'm on a roll..loose screws and all

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 13 Oct 2002 5:01 pm

Yes, the strings have to go over the top of the bridge fingers! The 1000-2000 had the cam action changer, instead of the solid-bar separate bridge of the old 400-1000 series. These guitars also went to the skinny (Jaguar-style) pickups instead of the previous wide style. These pickups are readily identifiable by their "saw tooth" sides. (They shouldn't protrude more that about 1/2" above the surface of the guitar.) Along with the new bridge design, and roller-nut, they also had the infamous "Fender Mute"...which hardly anybody ever used. Other significant changes were the cast pedals instead of the stamped-steel ones of the earlier ('58-'63) models, and the double-raise-double lower changer, along with their well-known "sunburst" finish.

Despite all these changes, Fender's cable design was still outclassed in the mid '60's by the rod systems being used by Sho~Bud, Emmons, ZB, MSA, and Marlen. The only "edge" Fender had was ease of setup, and their name...neither of which made much difference. Their new (Gene Fields) steel design in '72, the PS-210, could have kept them in the steel business. But, as Jody has often said, the "suits" finally won out, and they got out of the steel (custom instrument) business.

It just seems strange that it took Fender a couple of decades to get back into the "custom-shop" business with special guitars amd amps, and then neglect to bring along their first "custom" instrument when they did.

Jody Carver · Post by **Jody Carver** » 13 Oct 2002 5:03 pm

Howard
That "Mute" was an idea of Noel Boggs. He would often use his right hand on his quad to
get special effects. One in particular was
his rendition of "Alabamy Bound" where he
would run his picks over the strings as they
were "muted" with his right hand. He gave Leo
the idea, and since Noel helped Leo with many
ideas on the steel guitars,,Leo applied it to
the 2000 guitar.

He also used it to "shut me up"

Do you know the reason it was called the 2000
guitar? I do..read my book. Do you know why he named the other the 1000 guitar? buy two
books.

Jody Carver · Post by **Jody Carver** » 13 Oct 2002 5:07 pm

Ow what I saw,,I saw under your guitar,,now lets hear you play "Alabamy Bound"

You are
really on a roll. What kind of roll? Onion or
plain?

Good Pictures Howard,,,,,you show off. Ya have a picture of me?

betcha dont.

Clinton Kirby · Post by **Clinton Kirby** » 13 Oct 2002 5:10 pm

Many thanks! YOU GUYS are the long-lost Fender 2000 manual! Jody, what book of yours are you referring to?

HowardR · Post by **HowardR** » 13 Oct 2002 5:13 pm

and for those of you who need to brush up on your history, here is some required reading, "The Fender PS 210" or "How to Dress for Success".....pop quiz when you least expect it.
http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum5/HTML/003861.html

Jody Carver · Post by **Jody Carver** » 13 Oct 2002 5:33 pm

Howard
Shame On You,,,you told me that photo was for my book,,put your pants on..Im ashamed of
you.

What's that your drinking? and is that one of
Bill Clintons old Cigars??

you using seconds now?? Shame on you.