Attracting New Players

Joe Casey · Post by **Joe Casey** » 18 Sep 2012 2:11 pm

Hey Cris,Is Willie your Brother?

Brint Hannay · Post by **Brint Hannay** » 18 Sep 2012 2:27 pm

Bill McCloskey wrote:The straight steel enjoyed quite a bit of experimentation, especially in the area of tunings. Where are pedal's equally varied experiments?

I believe you earlier drew a distinction between "tunings" and "pedals." To my mind, the pedals are part of whatever tuning uses them, and thus the varied experiments of the last few decades, such as they are, have been mostly in the area of the pedals (of course, including knee "pedals"). So there hasn't been an entire lack of experimentation.

But that aside, I personally can't escape the feeling that there's another overall tuning or two (with pedals) out there waiting to be born. (Or maybe, to be recognized?) Something freshly conceived, rather than a hybrid of existing configurations.

Bill McCloskey · Post by **Bill McCloskey** » 18 Sep 2012 3:01 pm

Brint, I think you raise a great point and hopefully it will stir some real discussion on the future of the instrument.

Me I've gone up the mountain and back down: started on National Steel bottle neck guitar, then to dobro for many years. From Dobro to lap steel. 6 string lap to 8 string, 12 string ( I owned the first 12 string super slide and the first double neck 12 string superslide), then to Pedal Steel. Went from Pedal Steel to double neck console steel, to lap steel, down to my 6 string Asher Ben Harper model. That is all I play and all I have played for the last few years.

And I'm more expressive on the 6 string in D tuning than anything else I've ever played.

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 19 Sep 2012 3:44 am

Bill M.,

I can't think of anything written on this forum, more interesting, than to read about a player's musical interests that have transpired from the start up to the present day. Thanks for the fine example of sharing your pleasures here, where the information can be enjoyed thusly, as you have ponted out. Thanks to all others as well, for sharing their thoughts on what the future may bring.

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 19 Sep 2012 8:42 am

In that spirit, it's my personal belief that concurrent with the move towards pedals/knees as a central area of exploration was a trend away from bar movement as an area of interest and exploration. It was shocking for this somewhat younger listener to hear Speedy West and Joaquin Murphy for the first time - it's almost like a different instrument. And I realized that there is a whole avenue which has been (inadvertently?) discarded by the ubiquity of the 10-ounce bars. Years back any mention of Debashish Bhattacharya or Vishwa Mohan Bhatt was met with some sneering on this board, until Paul Franklin mentioned his admiration; and people speak with reverence of David Lindley's now 40-year-old excursions, without the simple fact dawning, the answer's in your hand. It's not like there's anything wrong with a 3/4 lb. bar, but it has been circumscribing technique for an... adequate period, IMO.

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 19 Sep 2012 11:14 am

SPEEDY WEST, and JIMMY BRYANT were two leaders in duets consisting of pedal steel, and standard guitar way back in the 50's. As far as I'm concerned, I felt that they were leaders with both instruments at that time. Les Paul, IMO, probably could match Jimmy on a good day in speediness. The three pickers on standard guitars that were the best in the business, were, CHET ATKINS, LES PAUL, and JIMMY BRYANT. How sad to see them go on that long journey.

Bo Legg · Post by **Bo Legg** » 19 Sep 2012 11:32 am

JIMMY BRYANT and SPEEDY WEST
Always to me sounded like a bumble bee chasing a bulldog through a junk yard.

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 19 Sep 2012 12:00 pm

Bo Legg,

I can't remember any duet players keeping pace with either gentleman during their heydays.

Stephen Silver · Post by **Stephen Silver** » 19 Sep 2012 12:59 pm

Bill, since your memory is not that good (as you so stated) take a gander at this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGGE4CrPvjU

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 19 Sep 2012 1:48 pm

Stephen,

DANNY GATTON was in the second grade in grammar school when JIMMY BRYANT recorded "Low Man On The Totem Pole". Of course SPEEDY WEST was right as his elbow at the time.

Actual tempos can be changed with a twist of the wrist on recordings. There are so many tricks to be had using electronics. Most machines that play recordings are adjustable to preferred RPM's. The pitch changes as well as the tempo. As for speed, I vote LES PAUL in his heyday.

Charles Davidson · Post by **Charles Davidson** » 19 Sep 2012 7:27 pm

Bill, You can listen to the top 4 or 5 top pickers today[and they are very good] But it's all just a rehash of what Emmons,Day,Charlton, etc,were doing 40 or 50 years, Why is it you can hear a hot solo on a recording by one of the top studio guys and everyone is asking [Who is that playing on so and so's new CD,they all sound alike,Then Robert Randolf comes along with something new and great ,and you say what he's doing is [HAIRBRAINED]?JEEPERS CREEPERS

YOU BETCHA,DYK?BC.

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 20 Sep 2012 2:36 am

Charles,

If by chance you listen to the same interview that I happened upon, you will see that he more or less paid COUNTRY MUSIC the same compliment. That is to say, I thought that he made light of a hot country music "lick". I become a little sensitive when anyone moves to make light of super pickers in country music. Otherwise, I found ROBERT RANDOLPH to be very entertaining in many different music related ideas. It wouldn't be difficult to share the same excitement that is quite apparent during his performances.

Charles Davidson · Post by **Charles Davidson** » 20 Sep 2012 3:48 pm

Do you KNOW he was making light of country or you just THOUGHT he was.I have been a fan since his first cd[THE WORD]seen him many times on TV,read interviews with him on TV and in print,Guess I missed the one where he insulted country pickers.YOU BETCHA,DYK?BC.

Bill McCloskey · Post by **Bill McCloskey** » 20 Sep 2012 4:05 pm

I want to thank Charles for his response. I think everyone gives you a lot of slack Bill, but for someone who professes to love the instrument, to be as woefully ignorant of Robert Randolph, his background, and his music as you seem to be, quite frankly in my opinion is disgraceful. You, who claims to want to see the instrument move forward...you who speaks ad nauseum on the importance of practice...

To bad mouth someone who has done NOTHING but talk about his love of the music and to popularize that love, in a tradition that has been around since the 30's.

Sorry...won't say any more before I really lose my temper. You are a hypocrite my friend.

Bo Legg · Post by **Bo Legg** » 20 Sep 2012 5:33 pm

RR made light of just about everything in that video including himself. So I took his performance in that video as an attempt to be humble and funny and wasn’t offended at all.

However if you just singled out that one segment you could make the case that RR was putting down Country PSG players.

In that light a person would see RRs rendition of country cliché as it diffidently was “less than flattering exaggerated stereotypical country PSG twang. “

Bottom line here is that RR didn’t tell us what his intent was. So Bill’s guess would be a good as mine or yours.

Theresa Galbraith · Post by **Theresa Galbraith** » 20 Sep 2012 5:43 pm

RR is a member so maybe he'll respond, when he can.....

Charles Davidson · Post by **Charles Davidson** » 20 Sep 2012 9:08 pm

Bill,How many steel players here in 2012 do you know that can fill a HUGH venue with his steel FRONT AND CENTER IN YOUR FACE,keep thousands on their feet for several hours.Can any country steeler do that ? There are thousands of people out there that did'nt know the difference between a steel guitar and a Nash Rambler,that are fans of the steel because of Robert.Don't know for sure,but would bet he could play your style,if he wanted to,Could you play his ?The last time I worked on the road with an alt country-rock band I met quite a lot of kids that actually KNEW what instrument I was playing ,because of Robert. Of course I know there are a few close-minded people [the ones that think Crazy is a three chord song] will NEVER accept his style of playing. But that's allright,that old river keeps on flowing.YOU BETCHA,DYK?BC.

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 21 Sep 2012 3:29 am

To clear the air, I've never met a steel player that I didn't like. I've met many who are excellent players, and a few who are struggling with the instrument's many secrets. Certain runs and note patterns prove to be too difficult for a large number of players. Surprisingly though, it's an area where one must wait and see how far along that "segment" of players upgrade their ability to pick up the tempo, and begin to use the chromatics with improved dexterity. One of the first indications, I've learned over time, is to witness an outward appearance of wishing to learn how to advance on the pedal steel guitar. That particular group of players usually go on to play well enough to enter a working band. From that point on, the additional "workups" with their band will improve 10 fold in getting that important "handle" on a particular playing style.

Daniel McKee · Post by **Daniel McKee** » 21 Sep 2012 4:16 am

I think one of the main reasons new people are not playing pedal steel is because it is not used all that much in todays music.I think most of us more than likely started playing because of something we heard in a song or from hearing it on the radio.In todays music you can find pedal steel but not near as much as say in the 50s and 60s.Another major thing is lack of information which now there is this forum and a few other sites that do help a lot but the information on steel is still somewhat limited.The cost can be a problem for some compared to an inexpensive guitar a beginner pedal steel usually runs anywhere from 400 to 1000 dollars which compared to a 200 dollar guitar is quite a bit more.I wish there were more steel players out there I promote it every chance I get but most people at the first mention of it say I just dont like country you just cant explain its not just for country you can do a lot with it.

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 21 Sep 2012 6:57 am

I've often wondered if any forum members are aware of a once popular figure in country music back in the 1930's? Two of the songs that he would play and sing were called:

1. "WHEN WILLIE THE HILLBILLY GOES TO TOWN"

2. "WHEN I THROW MY LARIAT AROUND SWEET HARRIET"

Can you tell me the name of the late singer?

Thanks..

Charles Davidson · Post by **Charles Davidson** » 21 Sep 2012 8:58 am

Of course ,what's the big deal,that was Hank Keene.By the way you say[I never met a steel player I did'nt like] Then why do you bad mouth some of them? YOU BETCHA,DYK?BC.

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 21 Sep 2012 9:42 am

ha..joe, i wish he was my brother! thanks for the compliment!

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 21 Sep 2012 9:57 am

Charles,

I wish that you would tell me more about HANK KEENE. How on earth did you know who I had in mind, when the inquiry was made? If you knew right off the top of your head who I was referring to, I'm truly amazed. His name is not found in THE ULTIMATE ENCYCLOPEDIA of country music. Thanks for the response.

Doug Beaumier · Post by **Doug Beaumier** » 21 Sep 2012 10:13 am

Bill, if you go to Google and type in "Hank Keene" you will come up with many sites about Hank Keene & Connecticut Hillbillies... including links to Youtube clips of his music.

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 21 Sep 2012 11:21 am

Doug,

Thanks for the info. I'm wondering if the band used a Dobro or Lap Steel in their group. HANK KEENE must have frequented this area around BERKSHIRE COUNTY in those days during the great depression. I think they used a hot fiddle in the group. I can't be sure though.