Wound 6th string? Pro vs. Con (E9th)

Jeff Lampert · Post by **Jeff Lampert** » 4 Oct 2002 2:24 pm

Is it just for a whole step drop to a unison lick? What are some of the other uses? Ed

Ed, why not start a separate topic on this? Also, if you post a new topic in the Tab section of the Forum, I'll bet some players will tab out a few licks for you on lowering the G# to F#. Regards .. Jeff

Paul Graupp · Post by **Paul Graupp** » 4 Oct 2002 3:09 pm

b0b: Thanks for reminding me but sometime back I mentioned that I always wanted the same number of plains and wounds. I remember feeling like the Lone Ranger when I posted it and then someone came along and said BE did that too. That was a really good change of feelings for me and I'd almost forgot it.

Thanks for the Memory ! Paul

Rex Thomas · Post by **Rex Thomas** » 4 Oct 2002 7:23 pm

What Kenny Krupnick said made sense to me. I just never thought of it that way. My Sho-Buds & MSA's had wound 6ths, the Emmons had plain.
Here builders, whaddya think: Wouldn't scale length better make that determination? (NO BOBBE, I'm guessing. Put yer gun away.) It seemed to me that the Buds & the MSA's were a bit shorter than the Emmons, it definitely felt more taunt, & it took me awhile to get used to that extra 1/4" (?). But the plain 6th was fine. Yeah, there were extra overtones but I got used to it. My Derb has a plain 6th & it's fine, although I raise the 7th instead of dropping the 6th.
Can't imagine a plain 6th on the older Buds, but I'm sure it works for someone out there.
I do hope the string manufacturers won't forsake us concerning oddball sizes, as I see a LOT of variations on this theme, both plain & wound.

Brian Herder · Post by **Brian Herder** » 5 Oct 2002 6:15 am

A few years back, Ricky Davis suggested that I use a .024w on my old Sho Bud (and a .012 3rd). It made a huge difference in sound and set up/performance, and I'll never go back (not with this guitar, anyway).
I like what Bobby Lee said about the heavy plain 6th string seeming more like a paper clip than an instrument string.

Lee Baucum · Post by **Lee Baucum** » 5 Oct 2002 7:20 am

On my old Sho-Bud and MSA guitars, I always used a wound .024. In the early 80's I switched to an Emmons (S-12) push/pull and continued to do so. Later, I converted the guitar to a Universal (E9/B6). When I did that, it called for raising the 6th string a whole tone. I just couldn't get the guitar to pull that string far enough to get a whole tone raise, using a wound .024. That's when I changed to an .022P and have used that size ever since. Now that I'm playing a Mullen, I guess it's time to try the wound string again.

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Lee, from South Texas

Lee Baucum · Post by **Lee Baucum** » 5 Oct 2002 7:23 am

Off Topic Comment: Whip Lashaway is a way cool name.

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Lee, from South Texas

David Wright · Post by **David Wright** » 5 Oct 2002 7:51 am

I to play the Bb6, and agree with Maurice, I have tryed the plain .22 and found I had a visual problem knowing were I was sometimes.....

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Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 5 Oct 2002 7:58 am

On the Bb6th, that string is tuned lower (to G instead of G#). All the more reason to use a wound string.

Chuck McGill · Post by **Chuck McGill** » 6 Oct 2002 5:39 am

Ok O'Bobbe where art thou on this subject.
(not Everett McGill but close)

Wayne Cox · Post by **Wayne Cox** » 6 Oct 2002 3:22 pm

Well,since no one else has brought this up; I once owned a pedal steel with a 25" scale. On this particular steel I tuned to a D9th (same intervals as E9th) and found that I could use an .022p for a sixth string. I felt that it shoud have been too loose,but it wasn't,even though it was tuned to F#. Also,it didn't go dead on the 12th frett. All of this seems to contradict my experience other steels. Maybe the string length made the difference,or maybe not,but please don't get into a 25" vs 24 1/4" battle over this.
W.C.

Al Burk · Post by **Al Burk** » 6 Oct 2002 9:22 pm

My first steel was a MSA and they recomended a 24w. I've notice that most sets of psg strings include a plain 20 or 22 for the 6th string. Occasionally, I would try the plain and was never satified with the tuning or tone and would switch back to the wound.
I got a new Carter last year and had Bud set up the PF forth pedal that lowers the 6th a whole tone. Bud said I would have to use a plain to use that pedal. I was never happy with the tone or tuning and switched back to 24w on the 6th. I've decided not to use the PF pedal and use the change somewhere else.

Al Burk

Dave Ristrim · Post by **Dave Ristrim** » 7 Oct 2002 4:47 am

Don't forget that with all "wound" strings, the size of the core will effect the tension. Not all brand of wound strings have the same core size. Use a micrometer when changing brands of string.
Dave

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 7 Oct 2002 6:34 am

FWIW, It's been reported that you have a better chance of making a wound string work if you have a keyless guitar. There is less string to fool with behind the roller nut.
Erv

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 7 Oct 2002 8:02 am

Pretty amazing, but this is what I wanted to see. Did you know that better than 99% of E9th tunings are played with a plain sixth string? This sort of proves that the dreaded "cabinet drop" either isn't as important or doesn't exist on many guitars.
How important is "caninet drop" to you? Actually, it isn't very to me, what little Iv'e seen , seems to help sweeten the tuning more than hurt. However, I'm still suspicious of seeing new guitars come with wound third strings , from the factory since 99% of the players don't use a wound string.

richard burton · Post by **richard burton** » 7 Oct 2002 10:09 am

Al Burk: I have no trouble lowering a 24W a full tone on my Carter, perhaps I ought to e-mail Bud with the simple mod I designed to achieve this drop.

Whip Lashaway · Post by **Whip Lashaway** » 7 Oct 2002 11:30 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>
Off Topic Comment: Whip Lashaway is a way cool name.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Thanks Lee. I like it too! Actually my name is Mike, but, everybody calls me Whip.
Later
Whip!!!

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Whip Lashaway
Sierra E9/B6 12 string
Sierra E9/B6 14 string
[This message was edited by Whip Lashaway on 07 October 2002 at 01:16 PM.][This message was edited by Whip Lashaway on 07 October 2002 at 01:22 PM.]

Danny Bates · Post by **Danny Bates** » 7 Oct 2002 3:21 pm

Information for thought;

On cheaper short scale pianos, there are more wound strings.

On expensive long scale pianos, there are less wound strings. In other words, the plain strings go further into the bass registers.

Paul Graupp · Post by **Paul Graupp** » 7 Oct 2002 4:44 pm

Danny: Could you give us a feel for the guages used on the plain piano strings ?? That just hit my curiosity button. Thanks !!

Regards, Paul

Bob Simmons · Post by **Bob Simmons** » 7 Oct 2002 7:15 pm

Ah men,Bobbe, spend less time worrying about cabinet drop and more time playing. The biggest thing I,ve noticed is that a lot of pickers can,t hear the flatted 3rd &5th tones. After that all you need is an E or something.
By the way, are you ready for a biennial flight review yet? Plan to fly up there soon.
Bob Simmons

Bob Simmons · Post by **Bob Simmons** » 7 Oct 2002 7:23 pm

Ah men,bobbe. To me a wound 6th doesn't have the ring. Spend more time picking and not worry about cabinet drop. I've also noticed a lot of pickers can't hear the flatted 3rd & 5th,etc when I take the tuners away from them. I just give them an E and make them show me an in-tune chord.
By the way, are you ready for a biennial flight review yet? Need to get up there soon.
Bob Simmons

Bob Simmons · Post by **Bob Simmons** » 7 Oct 2002 7:25 pm

opps, forgot there was a page 2

Danny Bates · Post by **Danny Bates** » 7 Oct 2002 7:58 pm

Paul, for piano strings, the usual is .029 -.049 for the plain and .051 -.194 wound. The plain strings are sold (on spools)for a little over $11 a pound and the wound bass strings are about $5 wholesale. These are imported strings from Germany. They supposedly don't break as easy as American strings.

Al Burk · Post by **Al Burk** » 7 Oct 2002 10:00 pm

Richard Burton,
I would be very interested in the mod you did to your carter that lowers the wound 6th. You may email me at:

aburk@houston.rr.com

Also, let me know what Bud says about your mod.

Thanks,

Al

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 8 Oct 2002 7:23 am

Bobbe, your 99% figure doesn't match my string sales. I think it's more like 85%. And from what I'm reading here, the reason has more to do with tone than cabinet drop. I lot of us just like the way the wound string sounds.

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/b0b.gif" width="64" height="64">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs
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Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 8 Oct 2002 8:53 am

I have two main guitars. One is a p/p and, since I need to raise and lower a full tone, I use a plain 022 on the sixth. On the Fessy, a wound 6th works fine in the last slot on the bellcrank for the full tone lower. I also lower it 1/2 tone and raise both a 1/2 and whole tone with slightly longer throw than a plain (duuuh) but not enough to be distracting or clumsy -- particularly where it counts -- on the B pedal.

I played the Fessy for a solid month after I went to the wound string. Sounded great, cab drop decreased substantially, tuned easier with few adjustments as the night went on.

I played the Emmons this weekend. It sounded great -- as usual -- but I really noticed how often I had to tweak the 6th string as it warmed from hand friction. It also is flaky using a strobe or other electronic tuner. The wound string has a strong fundamental signal and the plain is a quivering mass of overtones. Wound wins hands down for me.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
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