How to tune the pedal steel guitar - the best?

Dale Kath · Post by **Dale Kath** » 3 Sep 2012 5:39 pm

Is there a definitive best video on how to tune the pedal steel guitar? I have found little snippets on YouTube, but a video that gets into the pedals the levers, the cents, and hertz and the whole process would be invaluable for this complicated (and wonderful) instrument. Print instructions are fine, but to actually see it being done, the whole process, well, I would pay for that!

Bill Moore · Post by **Bill Moore** » 3 Sep 2012 7:05 pm

Try this one:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 3809301054

Dale Kath · Post by **Dale Kath** » 4 Sep 2012 5:35 am

Perfect! thanks Bill!

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 4 Sep 2012 1:30 pm

"They're outa tune, but they sound mighty good..."

Well (and with all due respect) that's a matter of opinion. My ear just doesn't like that many beats on an open triad E chord.

This group of offsets does get you in the ball park, but a discerning ear can do better, IMHO.

Pete Burak · Post by **Pete Burak** » 4 Sep 2012 1:57 pm

I've switched to Seiko tuners because they have a numeric "Cents" readout.
I currently like this one:
http://www.guitarcenter.com/Seiko-SAT80 ... 1470678.gc
For S12U I like Larry Bell's method of tuning to "Cents" (Thanks, Larry!)

:
http://www.larrybell.org/id32.htm
More on tuning from Larry:
http://www.larrybell.org/id29.htm

Stuart Legg · Post by **Stuart Legg** » 4 Sep 2012 5:17 pm

Oh no! please I can't stand it! not another Best Tuning

Dale Kath · Post by **Dale Kath** » 4 Sep 2012 6:10 pm

I understand, Stuart. There is tons of material on tuning on the Internet and the forum. Believe me, I have read it all. The youtube videos are helpful, But a DVD or video on this complicated process might be out there, I just haven't found it. Yet. I will be printing out the larrybell info. Its all good.

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 4 Sep 2012 7:34 pm

Every guitar will sound slightly better with slightly different offsets. starts from the cents version of the Newman chart, and develop your own variation from it

Jim Kennedy · Post by **Jim Kennedy** » 7 Sep 2012 2:09 pm

All the charts and offsets are great, but if you can't hear if your guitar is in tune, it don't mean nothing. Tuning is a skill that needs to be developed, just like any other aspect of playing. It is only developed through practice. I use my tuner as a reference and then fine tune by going through some pedal and knee changes up and down the neck. Do it enough and you will get it right.

Jerry Kippola · Post by **Jerry Kippola** » 7 Sep 2012 3:28 pm

I tune the e's (442) and then everything else by ear. a quick alternative way is -if u play thru a distortion device for some things-- the resultant tone thru the distortion is easy to hear the tuning with-- esp the A, B, C pedals

Bill Rowlett · Post by **Bill Rowlett** » 11 Sep 2012 9:16 am

Some valuable tips (especially the last paragraph) from PRINCIPLES OF VIOLIN PLAYING & TEACHING PRENTICE-HALL, INC. ENGLEWOOD CLIFFS, N. J. 1962

"Lastly, in this discussion of intonation, it is necessary to consider what type of intonation ought to be used: the "tempered" or the "natural."

This is not the place to go into the technicalities of the two systems. No violinist can play according to a mathematical formula; he can only follow the judgment of his own ear. Be this as it may, no one system of intonation will suffice alone. A performer has constantly to adjust his intonation to match his accompanying medium.

The artist must be extremely sensitive and should have the ability to make instantaneous adjustments, in his intonation. (The best and easiest way to make such adjustments is by means of the vibrato.) An intonation adjustable to the needs of the moment is the only safe answer to the big question of playing in tune.

The most important part in all of this is assigned, obviously, to the ear, which has, to catch immediately the slightest discrepancy between the pitch desired and the pitch produced and then demand an instant reaction from the fingers.

Advanced players, already in possession of a secure intonation, will find that their facility for quick adjustment can be improved further by changing from time to time the instruments they use. It is also good advice not to interrupt the practice every few minutes to retune the violin. One should be able to play in tune on a violin which is out of tune. The performer who has acquired such a skill will never be shaken out of his assurance and authority in public performance by a recalcitrant string."

Bill

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 11 Sep 2012 9:41 am

Bill and Jim, I totally agree. Your ear is the deciding factor and the ability to play in tune. Newman tunes his routes 9 cent sharp above. I'll agree that 442 is a better place to start. Different guitars have different amount of cabinet drop.

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 11 Sep 2012 10:30 am

Wow, a great post! The last paragraph says it all. You "should be able to play in tune on (an instrument) that is out of tune."

I'll confess. I don't do that very well at all. I could use help with my intonation as well as the dexterity of my right hand.

The greatest solos of all time were played on guitars that were flexing all over the place and going haywire with temperature changes. The players simply knew how to play the instrument.

Ray Mitchell · Post by **Ray Mitchell** » 11 Sep 2012 1:08 pm

The best tuner I've ever used is an "E" tuning fork in conjunction with nulling out the beat notes between the various strings. While some sort of electronic tuner might be appropriate for newbies, for poor quality guitars, and the occasional broken string, I believe that using them exclusively is doing the development of your "ear" a real disservice. Regarding some of the best steel players that may use them, I would guess that their ears are already pretty well developed. ...just my opinion, however.

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 11 Sep 2012 10:26 pm

I'm a greedy with Mister Mitchell. Tune your Es and then tune me guitar by ear from there.
And then, if you like, recorded your offsets the way you tune your guitar. Then enter offsets into your programmable tuner, for the purposes of tuning on the fly or on the stage.

Bill Moore · Post by **Bill Moore** » 12 Sep 2012 3:47 am

There are a lot of good points posted, but the original question was asked by a beginner, who wanted a video that would help him tune. The Jeff Newman video will do that for him,. Who has taught more people to play the pedal steel guitar than anyone else? Jeff Newman. His method works, it's been used by thousands probably. The longer one plays, the easier it should be be play in tune, but don't you think it's unrealistic to expect the average beginner to have the ears of a twenty year player? Just my opinion.

Dale Kath · Post by **Dale Kath** » 12 Sep 2012 7:20 am

You know Bill, I have been to Jeffran.com numerous times but do not see any particular video that describes or shows the tuning procedure. I know this will get some clucks, but.. those video courses are expensive! at this point I have utilized the larrybell info and my PSG is in relative good tune. Pedals and Knees! One chart may say tune 4th string knee -22, another declares -6. Quite a difference. I see now to generalize the chart suggestions and then use my ear. Thankfully at this point my ears are still working!
Thanks for all the help

Carl Mesrobian · Post by **Carl Mesrobian** » 12 Sep 2012 7:23 am

I use whichever electronic tuner is in my bag and then get a consensus from the band. A tuning fork certainly works great, just haven't used it on a PSG. It's about how it sounds, not necessarily what's on the LED or LCD, no? Bar pressure, cabinet drop, fret position, weather, age of the strings- lots of variables.

Bill Moore · Post by **Bill Moore** » 12 Sep 2012 9:29 am

Dale, the video I linked to above is by Jeff Newman. I'm not sure what course, if any, this short video is from, but it covers what you want to know. Jeff's courses are worth the money. The "Fight Hand Alpha" video is very good for a beginner. It will keep you busy for quite a while and get you started correctly. Good luck,

Carl, you're right, it's about how it sounds. But a beginner can get pretty close to a good sound by following Jeff Newmans tuning chart. If you have enough experience to find fault with the chart, as it applys to your guitar, by all means tune to YOUR own ear.

By the way, I have had some hearing loss for many years. When I was young, the doctor used to use tuning forks to give a hearing test. He would hold a fork near my ear and ask if I could hear it. He had a whole set of forks of different frequencies.

Anyway, Electronic tuners work for me, I can see the reading, then play the guitar at a reasonable volume and make any small adjustment I think is needed. Most of the time I am very close to Jeff Newman's tuning chart, and I think I sound in tune. Listening while you play, and learning to make small adjustments with the bar, is one of the hardest things to learn about playing pedal steel. It takes some time to learn this. But it helps a lot if you start with the guitar properly tuned.

Todd Brown · Post by **Todd Brown** » 12 Sep 2012 11:31 am

I gotta agree with Jerry Kippola regarding a distortion box. It's a quick easy way to really hear the beats if you're having questions about whether your strings are in tune with each other. No matter how you tune, whichever method you decide is best for you, your guitar, playing situation, or whatever, they(the beats) will stick out like a sore thumb with a distortion or overdrive box on if your not dead on it. I'm talking tuning your open strings and engaging pedals and levers open.

It all boils down to your ears. You gotta be able to hear it. Some guys can, some can't. Playing in tune is a whole different conversation. I still struggle with it from time to time playing with a band. But if your not in tune with all of your opens, you'll never play in tune using the bar.

Dale, BTW, your avatar bothers me for some reason

FWIW, I used the Newman tuning chart from the start
http://www.jeffran.com/tuning.php
But I always thought I sounded out of tune with the band. Whether that was me or not, I'm not sure. The guitar player at the time always seemed to have intonation/tuning trouble with his Tele. Maybe it wasn't me.

But, for a while now I've used the Buddy Emmons chart I got from a previous post from Lane
http://www.buddyemmons.com/ttchart.htm
Much better! The band sounds in tune now. But, we do have a new guitar player who seems to not have tuning issues like the other had. You figure it out!

Greg Wisecup · Post by **Greg Wisecup** » 12 Sep 2012 1:31 pm

A couple years ago I thought I was having guitar issues and I took my guitar to Wayne Hobbs. He said he knew it didn't have a problem but agreed to look at it any way. He checked it out and said it had no problem. He sat me down and told me the same thing Jeff Newman said "It needs to be out of tune to play in tune!" It's hard to wrap your head around; but until you try you will always be dis satisfied. Do what Jeff say's and that will be the end of your problems.
Going through all of the presets and such is not my cup of tea. I tune the E's with the A&B down and tune the rest till it sounds right.

Ken Metcalf · Post by **Ken Metcalf** » 12 Sep 2012 1:56 pm

One thing that gets lost in these tuning threads is it depends if you have been playing steel for 20 years or 20 days..
People go off in 50 directions splitting theoretical hairs and a new guy gets a bunch of contradictions to answer his question.
Some times people are actually asking how to tune a steel as in what are these little hex heads for and why do my levers not sound right??

Dale Kath · Post by **Dale Kath** » 12 Sep 2012 1:57 pm

Bill, I downloaded that video you suggested, had no idea that was the late, great Jeff Newman! And Todd, my avatar might be freakin' you cuz you suspect I'm taking a picture of you thu the computer.... But I'm not, so relax!

Dick Sexton · Post by **Dick Sexton** » 12 Sep 2012 2:12 pm

Greg is right, he's out of tune... Sorry Greg, the devil made me do it. As you guys know or may not, Greg and I are great friends. He is right, out of tune is best(that's what he tells me anyway). I did however, just try the Emmons off sets here: http://www.buddyemmons.com/ttchart.htm and I must say my Derby is sounding better then it has in a long time. Almost as good as Gregs black one, mines red. Some of you know I'm a hard core Strobo-flip user, have been using the SWT:OE9 for a good while now. I have to tell you though, I pulled up Equal Tuning on the Strobo, and just tuned up using the Emmons off sets and I like it very much. It sounds sweet, no pun intended. I didn't even have to tune my Es pedal down, which I have had to do for a long time. I think I'm going to have to program in the Emmons off sets and save them. I'll test run it tomorrow at our jam.

Pete Burak · Post by **Pete Burak** » 12 Sep 2012 4:31 pm

Is that Emmons chart in Hertz or Cents?

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