My response to "WHAT IF"!

Winnie Winston · Post by **Winnie Winston** » 19 Jan 2002 8:45 pm

Several comments:

The ovation backs are fiberglass-- NOT carbon fiber.
I used carbon fiber to stiffen my guitar when I re-built it-- two strips 1/2" wide undrer the neck, and one strip on the bottom of the front and back apron. Really helped the cabinet drop.
Until I hear it, though... I really think the tone has a lot to do with the wood selected for the top.
A number of years ago, Joe Kline built a "pine" guitar for Jeff Newman-- it was the one sawn in half at St. Louis. It was made with the same care joe made all the others-- same ends, same changer. It sounded terrible.
The cleanest sound I've yet heard is on the Anapeg-- and that is made from iron-dense wood from the Outback.
So..., I'd have to hear a carbon fiber top to believe it.

Cables? Could probably be great. But the changers would have to change-- now we stop the clanger in two places-- at the pedal stop and then by the length of the pull which is adjusted with the changer rod nut.
This would all change with cables. The changer would have to stop internally, or on the end-- like a ZB or Kline-- or the old Fenders...
I'd love seeing someone make a new cable giutar with the technology we now have.

Winnie

Bill Wilson · Post by **Bill Wilson** » 20 Jan 2002 9:24 am

Hello, Reece; I work for Cytec Engineered Materials, the world's largest producer of carbon fiber (and other) aerospace structural materials and adhesives. There are many types of such materials for many different applications. An earlier post mentioned a layup technique using graphite cloth injected in a mold with resin - this is known in the trade as "Resin Transfer Molding" (or RTM), but the most common method is to use pre-impregnated cloth or tape - preimpregnated with epoxy (the most common), polyimide, or bis-maleimide resins, which are plied up in layers on a tool, vacuum bagged, and then cured under heat and pressure in an autoclave, typically 250F or 350F and 60 psi or so. Epoxy is used for service temperatures up to 350F, the others for specialized usually high temperature applications.

There are also some very interesting materials known as "syntactic core", intended to replace the nomex or aluminum honeycomb core commonly used in aircraft structures. These materials are very thin sheets or rolls, typically 10 - 100 mil thick, made of epoxy resin/curing agent containing glass balloons or expanding polymer bubbles. When laid between layers of prepreg and co-cured, they yield an incredibly stiff and lightweight structure that when rapped with a knuckle sounds like a soundboard of a guitar to my ear.

Unfortunately I am not trained in acoustics so I wouldn't really know where to start in trying to design a structure for musical properties, but I can tell you that I think it could be done. Email me if you ever want some samples, I could arrange it.

As far as the $8000 axe comment, this would be true if one were buying on-spec aerospace material, but it seems that for an application this specialized a way could be found to get scrap material from aerospace production, material that would be perfectly suitable for any application not involving the safety of aircraft, for a small fraction of the list price. The main expense then would be fabrication of the parts, but one could look for efficient techniques to minimize that cost.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 23 Jan 2002 2:39 pm

Reece, I think titanium is still a little too expensive to use in a steel. On the other hand, carbon fiber can be made lighter, and with almost the exact properties of just about any wood. And unlike wood, can be totally consistent, from end-to-end, and piece-to-piece. I've played the Rainsong acoustic guitars, and they're quite impressive in all aspects.

I'd also like to see a "mechanically programmable" changer. There should be no reason to take a guitar apart just to change the copedant. You didn't have to take the old car radios apart to change the setup on them, did you?

Jim Phelps · Post by **Jim Phelps** » 23 Jan 2002 2:46 pm

.<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 17 November 2004 at 06:57 PM.]</p></FONT>

Andy Alford · Post by **Andy Alford** » 5 Oct 2002 6:28 am

This is one of the very best topics I have ever read on the Forum.After reading this and listening to other informed players it all makes since. MSA has and will meet the playing needs for many in the 21 century.Go check out Reese's web site on the new MSA it has some great info. and pictures.Reese thanks for all your work on behalf of the steel guitar world.Your new MSA looks grand,and people I trust say its the best sounding pedal steel they have ever heard.

Reece Anderson · Post by **Reece Anderson** » 5 Oct 2002 9:51 am

Andy....Each of us at MSA greatly appreciate your very kind comment.

"Team Millennium" is proud to continue the long tradition of MSA, and thrilled to have the opportunity to move pedal steel guitar forward into the 21st century.

We would not be here today were it not for supportive and inspiring people like you.