Middle 9th tone

Wayne Cox · Post by **Wayne Cox** » 3 Oct 2002 10:46 am

Thanks,LARRY! I am enjoying this opportunity to tap into such a wide reservoir of knowledge,experience,and opinions. It gives me new perspectives,incentives,and most of all,helps me to fight that evil gremlin called "boredom". It also helps to ward off Boredom's brother,"Complacency". They aren't related to JEFF L., are they?...Seriously,JEFF,if you are monitoring this;I just want to say that I definitely respect you and appreciate your input! Matter of fact, I've already noted several Forumites who are obviously intelligent and,I'm proud to say,are not just sitting around waiting for someone else to do their thinking for them. . .Thanks Guys!
W.C.

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 3 Oct 2002 10:52 am

I'm not a jazz player. I tend to use my back neck for country swing, blues, and for melodic passages that require a lot of midrange notes. The middle 9th tone works well in all of these applications.

Also, I never found the 10th string to be very useful in the music I play. I really don't miss it at all. I imagine that if I were a jazz player like you, Jeff, I would find it invaluable. But I have no aspirations in that genre, so I can forego the 10th string to get that middle tone.

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/b0b.gif" width="64" height="64">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (F Diatonic), Sierra Laptop 8 (D13), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6), Roland Handsonic

Wayne Cox · Post by **Wayne Cox** » 3 Oct 2002 12:13 pm

I guess we could start a "C6th/10th string" thread,but, in the mean time,here is what I,ve discovered. The 10th string (including the Boo-Wah drop)sounds great in my living room but tends to step-on and clash with the bass player,on stage.This is just one of the reasons I started tuning my C6th neck up to D6th. The second reason is the same as one of b0b's previous statements;"I like the edge". C6th string sets are more commonly available than D6th,so I still occasionally put C6th on my back neck. However,when I do,I have to be more cautious with my intonation (using the 10th string). Also,I use an .066 for the low C,instead of a .070.
Using the lighter gauged string also necessitates an acute awareness of bar pressure. The lighter gauge simply goes sharp much easier. See, Jeff L., Dan T. eliminated another problem by throwing away that big ole clunker! Jeff will have a lot to write about when he returns...keeps him out of trouble.
W.C.

Dan Tyack · Post by **Dan Tyack** » 3 Oct 2002 1:32 pm

I do think that if one were doing solo work with standards, a low C string would be very useful. It mostly gets in the way with a band.

Jeff Lampert · Post by **Jeff Lampert** » 3 Oct 2002 1:47 pm

Of course you can play low notes in a band. Piano players do it all the time. Steel players do it (Emmons on "Hold it" and "Nightlife", Chalker on everything). I've done it plenty. Sorry, but that just doesn't wash.[This message was edited by Jeff Lampert on 03 October 2002 at 04:15 PM.]

Al Marcus · Post by **Al Marcus** » 3 Oct 2002 5:00 pm

This post has produced some pretty intelligent discussions, and thought provoking ideas.

I play mostly in the 6th mode, Big band stuff and some jazz.

I have tried the 9th tone and hoped that it would work for me, but as Jeff has pointed out, it won't work for me either.

I play standard C6, almost, but I have moved it up 2 whole tones to E6.

My lowest note is guitar E .056. That is not too low for the bass player or band.

I use a lot of E9 strings gauges....al

Wayne Cox · Post by **Wayne Cox** » 4 Oct 2002 6:29 am

Al, you must really like "the edge". I've had only had two conversations with Buddy Emmons during my lifetime,but during one of those two (I think in the late 80's) he said he was using E6th w/C6th setup on his back neck,at that time. I guess he has tried it all. I have never tried that,but I love E6 for non-pedal steels,and its really not a drastic leap from D6th....still,that darned high G# bugs me.

Back to the drawing board.
W.C.

Wayne Cox · Post by **Wayne Cox** » 4 Oct 2002 7:02 am

Re:JEFF L., "Of course you can play low notes in a band." I'm not trying to contradict you on this,just clarify something. Hopefully this won't add confusion!When I was in college I attended a Neil Diamond concert. He sounded great with only a four-piece band. Years later,I attended a Neil Diamond concert. He sounded great with a fourteen-piece band.As individual musicians,the four-piece band worked twice as hard to acheive the same sound. I know that this is not "written in stone",but speaking in generalizations,you generally play less (fills,solos,chord comping,etc.)in larger groups than in smaller combos and bands. I have played in trios and quartets where my low notes were definitely needed,but in the larger groups I have to "lay back" to keep things uncluttered.~~~Now...as for "Piano players do it all the time." I am happy for them and I'm quite sure they are happy too!

W.C.

Jeff Lampert · Post by **Jeff Lampert** » 4 Oct 2002 8:06 am

Wayne, I was addressing the idea that low notes can be played without clashing with the bass guitar. I didn't mean that a player should go and play loads of bass notes, any more than a player should play loads of chords, or single note lines, or anything. Taste and judgement dictates what you play, but I was only trying to say that there is no fundamental reason not to play low notes in a band if they convey good musical ideas. As far as Neil Diamond goes, remember

Solitary Man
Sweet Caroline
Kentucky Woman
Shilo (my personal favorite)

I liked his songwriting alot.

Wayne Cox · Post by **Wayne Cox** » 4 Oct 2002 8:38 am

Jeff, I see that we are in agreement.Let me share this short story. Neil Diamond told this story long ago and it has always been an inspiration to me. "When I was a young man,still in school, I loved to write poems.During this period of my life,there was a young girl who I thought was the most beautiful girl in the world. I tried everything to impress her and get her attention. Nothing worked. Finally,I wrote a poem,and at an opportune time,read it to her. She only laughed at me and made fun of my poem.All of you young ladies,pay attention! If there is some unattractive young man trying to get your attention,remember, he could grow up to be a Neil Diamond. This is what I wrote for her;'Longfellow Serenade'."
W.C.